Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by johnjm22, Jan 4, 2019.
what is that suppose to mean?
It’s just a joke. Like how everybody’s a dick on discovery. I’m quoting the 3rd episode.
I don't have outrage, but I do take umbrage with a lot of what they have to say. In many of their other videos, Re:Views and HITB episodes they criticize movies and TV shows for doing a lot of what DSC is decidedly NOT doing in season 1, and the shorts. It reminds me a lot of their review of TLJ, where they astutely pointed out that while they didn't like the film, it was hard to criticize because it did EXACTLY what they had hoped the franchise would do (in that case, getting away from the story-by-committee, and being written and directed by one voice).
I have always liked and respected RLM for their thoughtful, less knee-jerky critiques of film and television, but in this case they seem a lot less thoughtful and a lot more knee jerky.
I've liked Chuck's levelheaded approach to DISCOVERY so far, but of course a lot of his thoughts on the show reflect mine. Funnily, there's plenty on his own forums terribly upset that he's not savaging the show in the manner he's done with VOYAGER and ENTERPRISE, that he's "too fair" with the new show. I don't understand his hatred for Pulaski, but I would not ask him to review anything differently than he has with his own opinion. I've enjoyed his videos for a decade now and won't ask for anything different.
Actually I can't, because it was devolving into people sniping at each other and discussing everything but the content of the video, which you have now managed to contribute to and escalate for an additional two pages after acknowledging that you know I'm the mod and asked people to stop.
Change your thoughts? No. Stop posting something until things calm down a bit if I ask? Yes. That's pretty much the definition of the moderator/poster relationship. What's odd is you weren't even involved in anything I was saying or on my radar yet you felt the need to come in and be the rebel for no apparent reason.
The "topic presented" is the content of the video. I don't care if you present it point by point or address one thing or whatever else you want, as long as it's relevant to the actual subject matter at hand.
I don't even care if in the process of addressing the video you mention that RLM has a tendency to do such and such in their videos and that's why you don't like them. As long as that's not the entire point of multiple posts which didn't even address the topic.
Don't tell me how to do my job.
Now, this is not an invitation for further discussion on how I do my job or what moderator instructions you feel are worthy or not of your compliance, so drop it.
I saw as many vague generalizations in your post as the posts you are complaining about. It actually reminded me of that viral video of kids fighting in a classroom and the female teacher is just screaming at the top of her lungs “STOP ITTT”.
That being said, I have seen nothing but negativity directed at the few fans who enjoy this show and see past its obvious flaws in the Discovery section of this site since it went up. Especially perpetrated by this “old guard” of commodores and admirals and what have you. That goes completely unchecked. No matter how knee jerk, rude, or snarky it is. So when you guys decide to crack down on that kind of constant nonsense and snarkiness that causes me to treat this section as a joke that it is, maybe I’ll join back up. Until then, I will GLADLY leave this site never to return.
See you when you come back right away despite your noble stand for nothing.
We get as many people who say we crack down too hard on those who dislike the show, so boo hoo. People tend to see what they want to see.
Enjoy your infraction for disobeying mod instructions on your way out. I'd say comments to PM, but you'll just ignore it anyway, because you're special and the rules don't apply to you.
Yeah, that's not true. A constant flow of negativity would be boring at best. Much of this discussion in this forum revolves around personal likes and dislikes, as well as the constant canon debate.
I might not agree with those who don't like Discovery, but many of the posters have been fair and even handed in their stating their opinion, and their reasons for sticking around. Or, as I like to call it, interesting discussion.
This thread is temporarily closed. I'll reopen it soon.
Fireproof, this is not because of your post. You just ninja'd me.
Reopened. Be nice. Please just move on from the derail above and return to the topic at hand.
Topic at hand: despite how intelligent and well reasoned their criticisms of other shows and movies are, their critique of Discovery is awfully biased and reactionary. They don't display the same level of analysis, and you can sense it even in their tone. Their points are often contradictory and logically flawed, which is unlike them.
Some of their criticisms make sense, but their larger points aren't consistent with their views on other, similar works. They come across not unlike the Star Wars fanatics (who hated The Force Awakens and loved Rogue One) that they always mock.
Mike tried hard to like Discovery. You could see it in the previous reviews. He was open to giving it a chance, but the series didn't deliver.
Though his prediction that CBS would dip into the desperate well of the Enterprise, Pike and Spock this early on was laughably accurate.
I wonder if they will indeed dredge Kirk up if S3 happens.
To go into more detail per @Locutus of Bored ... well, ignoring "overall negative stance" allows us to basically bracket out the first ten minutes and the last five minutes of the video. As far as the actual reviews went:
10:28 Calypso: I think their assessment that this is probably the best of the Short Treks is fair (excepting the Harry Mudd one which they weren't aware of in reviewing), and I agree with Rich that it also felt a little like an Outer Limits episode. What seems an inordinate amount of time is spent here talking about a shot of the protagonist looking out a window of the ship and seeing a shooting star, and how stupid that is and how if you don't know that shooting stars are an atmospheric phenomenon you're "exactly the audience that Star Trek Discovery is looking for." This puzzled me substantially because I can't find any such shot, even going through the episode specifically to look for it hasn't turned up anything... so it must be fairly brief or something, I guess? Brief joking about how the plot is similar to Wall-E (which I suppose is true as far as it goes, not a particularly fascinating insight) and brief speculation that this short will never be connected to anything and isn't setting anything up (doubtful but speculation is of uncertain value at best).
16:10 Runaway: "Tilly makes a friend," Rich's summary, is apt enough (really it's a little mini-arc about Tilly learning to have the competence to make independent decisions). Their critique of the alien being initially presented as some kind of uncanny semi-bestial threat is understandable to a point but a bit facile, and I don't understand why the phrase "she tore up the mess room like an animal" keeps arising since what happens in her initial encounter with Tilly is considerably weirder than that (in a way we later learn is meant to hint at major technical capability). There's a seeming unwillingness to extend any basic charity to the writing team, cf. snark toward the end of the review about how it was never established where the alien comes from or if Tilly is beaming her all the way back to her own planet. Like the "shooting star" before it this feels like a chunk of time expended on a non-problem: it's fairly clear that the ship recently took on cargo of some kind, presumably from another ship, and that Tilly's friend is in the end beamed back over to that ship.
23:50 The Brightest Star: I agree with Rich that Saru is likeable, so that's nice. There's a fairly large amount of time spent talking about how stupid it is that things fall from the ships of the aliens who are abducting the Kelpiens, which again seems to be down to just refusing to extend any kind of charity to the writing team (in-context it seems likely that whoever these particular aliens are, they're either dumping junk or offering trinkets in trade, and a strong implication that the Kepliens are practising some kind of inverted variant of a cargo cult). We probably will find out more about where these people were taking the Kelpiens in the rest of the show, so that's an astute observation from Mike.
And that's basically it? There's some snark about how they "break the Prime Directive" to recruit Saru, which is an... unorthodox interpretation of the Prime Directive, I guess, since a warp-capable species has clearly already been interfering with the Kelpiens and their religion for a long time. There's honestly not a huge amount of substance to engage with, that's part of why I was underwhelmed.
A few corrections:
1) the series didn't deliver FOR HIM.
2) The appearance of the Enterprise isn't factually"desperate"
3) The prediction isn't laughable. It was pretty much a given that it would show up eventually when they set it around the same time period. It's like predicting Rogue One might feature Darth Vader.
To be fair, they made fun of the desperation of Star Wars Rogue One to cash in on nerd nostalgia as well.
They come across, to me, as tired more than anything. Tired of reboots and remakes, and above all tired of Star Trek. Which I get. I don't see some failing of logic here. They're just not that passionate about the subject, and are still coming to grips with not being "into" the latest iteration of something they once loved. I think Mike said it best near the end of video when he admitted that it might be time to let his attachment to the franchise go.
So, yeah, you can view it as them being "biased" or you can take it the way I think it really is, as a couple of guys disappointed that they don't like a thing, and venting accordingly.
Apparently, there are some strong opinions on this thread, too...just like those from RLM.
Also, what I got from the "review" is that in spite of the criticism, Rich and Mike WILL watch S2 of DSC. The "bit" was that, with all of their "protest", they are still fans of the Star Trek franchise. RLM didn't build their "#CancelCBSAcess" button for just a one-off thing (just like they didn't get rid of their "Wheel of the Worst" prop). They will continue talking about all things Star Trek; whether they do a review of S2 of DSC still remains a possibility.
Now, THAT is being subversive, RJ!
It really wasn't as big a deal as what's his face made it out to be when he was needlessly fighting The Man, it was just one point raised out of many. I don't particularly care if people express their opinions about RLM in general, it's just that at the moment I made the post things had devolved into a grudge match about it and I was trying to refocus the discussion on something less contentious to give the thread some time to settle down.
So go ahead and talk amongst yourselves about RLM, it's fine. I'll give you a topic. Video reviews that are almost as long as the things they're reviewing are ridiculous. Discuss.
Separate names with a comma.