Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Vger23, Jan 19, 2019.
Also the Ba'ul having the same shaped device might just be a reuse of season 1 assets.
Sorry if it's been mentioned, a friend of mine and I had a conversation about the possibility of the mycelial network and the Red Angels being connected to the Bajoran prophets. The prophets were capable of traveling through time and mirror universe (and probably the rest of the multiverse as well). The two instances of Discovery investigating signals led to rescue missions with very precise time tables involved. It's a long shot, but it's an interesting possibility.
The network is a service; there would no doubt be multiple users. And indeed one of the big issues here is these other users, and their role in the formulation of user guidelines and rules. At the end of S1, it seemed the fate of the network was hanging on decisions made by us puny humans. But this is rather unlikely, considering humans have an infinitesimally small minority interest in the net. Had Good Stamets not stamped on Bad Stamets' work, somebody else would have. After all, the point of the net is that everybody can come and play, as the result of which there will be rules, bullies and grown-ups at the sandbox.
I didn't want to think the theory that the Angels were the Iconians, but after "Obol for Charon", can there be any doubt?
1. The sphere was a communication device which tries to disseminate its knowledge through the Discovery's computer system - same occurrence happens to the Yamato and the Enterprise in "Contagion"
2. The sphere causes major system failures - same as "Contagion"
3. The sphere is said to be 200,000 years old, the same age as the evacuation of Iconia noted by Picard.
4. Iconia is in the Beta Quadrant, near Romulan Space. Spock's trajectory after fleeing Starbase 5 is deeper into Beta Quadrant.
5. Iconians were called "Demons of air and darkness" who could instantly appear anywhere in the galaxy without the need of a spaceship. So far, that seems to be the behavior of the Red Angels.
6. In "Contagion" there is the initial belief that the Iconians were malicious. But Picard notes that this was the reputation given them by the people who tried to annihilate them. Discovery is trying to make the Angels' intentions appear dubious, but its slowly appearing that they are beneficial, they just communicate their motives in a very "alien" way.
7. As a bonus point: having just re-watched contagion, there is an oblique reference to Clarke's third law when Picard notes that primitive civilizations would think Starfleet and its abilities would appear magical. Quite a coincidence that Clarke's law was also noted in "Brothers"
And if I may go a step further; as to why Discovery has all the information now gathered from the Sphere and if it is indeed Iconian, why don't they know this stuff by Picard's time? Well, i think its linked to the same end-game that will happen with the spore drive. All this information will be (somehow) abandoned and the ship sent to the 33rd Century, as we saw in "Calypso". - Maybe a decision made by "people" who deem that to be a safe time when humanity will be ready for such knowledge. And by people, I mean Section 31 which the other on-going theme this season.
These points all seem to line up too well to be just coincidental.
They said it was 100,000 years old, not 200,000
There was no evidence presented in the episode that connects the sphere to the angels. No characters connected the two either.
The sphere was a life form, not a communication device. It was dying and wanted to pass on its knowledge before it happened. I don’t think the Iconians probes were ever said to be living things.
What makes you think they don't know about the Sphere and it's knowledge in the 24th century?? The Federation knew A LOT about the ancient cultures of the galaxy, but it was never explained how. How many times did the Enterprise go to a planet because of ancient ruins. For all we know the sphere's information has been used for decades to learn about ancient cultures and find planets containing remains of these various civilisation.
It won’t be the Iconians. That would clash too much with continuity
EM Perhaps because of what happened to Memory Alpha.
People like S31?
Maybe this 'sphere' encountered a life form, (things seen crawling on the sphere) that saw the sphere as something it could use to further its existence and the sphere could not protect itself against them.
Correct. The Iconians were Demons (of air and darkness), and these are Angels. So, mirror Iconians it is.
I rewatched “The Paradise Syndrome” yesterday and I think it's interesting how much the Preservers backstory lines up with what we saw in “The Brightest Star” and “New Eden”:
In both, “Paradise Syndrome” and “Brightest Star”, the obelisk has become the site of religious ceremonies (“New Eden” doesn't feature an obelisk, but a church as a central place).
In both episodes, the Preservers instructed a “medicine man” with how to work the obelisk's function (“New Eden” features the All-Mother in a seemingly similar role).
In both, “Paradise Syndrome” and “New Eden”, the Preservers transplanted and rescued a group of people from another planet.
And in both episodes, the planet is threatened by an impending catastrophe.
Of course, there was no need to operate anything in "New Eden". Then again, there was no need to operate anything in "Paradise Syndrome", either - the skies had darkened thrice since the last harvest, yet no rocks had fallen on 'em Injuns despite the Medicine Man being dead.
The heroes could easily discern there was no disaster in "Paradise Syndrome", despite supposedly millions of years of this "asteroid alley" treatment. The heroes could equally easily discern there was no disaster in "New Eden", despite supposedly millions of years of this radioactive ring treatment. But when the heroes arrive - lo, instant disaster! So, who's causing it and why?
The two times we observe this obelisk thing, there's a prominent absence of red angels or red things in the sky. Those only relate to the one case where there's no obelisk...
Rewatching Contagion now and an obscure thought hit me: the USS Yamato is suffering from ship-wide system failures...what other ship have we come across recently that had similar issues?
EDIT: Albeit that ship didn’t have a warp core breach as a result.
Seems we'll get the obelisk thing out of the way next week. No idea yet whether this will involve either Red Things (other than red death rays and red highlights on the obelisks that we see in the trailer) or Red Angels, or any acts of salvation or preservation on the part of these aliens who on the surface seem interested in genocide instead.
Probably not, as a close encounter with these folks (who don't have the Red Angel physique at least in the teaser provided) ought to solve the whole Red Issue but it's too early in the season for that. So we'll be left with a Red Mystery that no longer features the obelisks as an aspect...
My hypothesis is that sometimes members of this "angel" species go rogue and then go around in glowing green mumus pretending to be friendly and gathering children to be their followers, but for malevolent purposes of universal conquest.
The Red Angels are at war with the Green Ghosts, who long ago defeated their brethren, the Black Demons. The Purple Mummies are neutral in this conflict.
The Green Ghost Corps.
Red Angel is a Mirror Universe "Q."
I think the frustrating thing so far, is that we really don't know anything more about the Red Angel and the seven bursts than we did before "Brother". Mystery is fine, but there should be bread crumbs along the way that add up.
Separate names with a comma.