rebirth jumpgates

[Kaziarl]

I'm working on a story set into the far future of Trek. It deals with the degradation of subspace, eventual restoration, and a group trying to restore the federation.

Here's my problem, I need some type of engine. One idea that came to mind a few minutes ago stems from a different sci fi series, and the eppisode with the subspace eddies in which Tom Paris ended up completely inside subspace. (Please correct me if thats wrong, it's been some time since I've seen it. I know it was a different layer atleast.)

I wanted to know if it was possible to use these eddies, or something similar, to set up something similar to the Hyperspace Jumpgate Network from B5.

Same rules would apply with bigger ships being able to do it themselves, but smaller ships needing a jumpgate because of the energy cost.

2 questions for this:

1) Would you be able to travel through this other layer of space?

2) Since it's localized, would it have less of an impact on subspace as opposed to wide spread use as seen during TNG?

 

[Unicron]

B5 might not be the wisest choice, as that system is difficult to control. Essentially a B5 ship has to follow the jump beacons like a lifeline and hope they don't lose contact. The game Tachyon: The Fringe used jumpgates which created a wave of tachyons that small ships could use to travel between sectors. Capital ships have their own internal jump engines, though unfortunately I can't give you any specific details on those.

 

[SonicRanger]

Can your protagonists simply get their hands on Borg transwarp conduit technology? That'd be simpler to explain, and the technology seems to do what you want it to do.

 

[Kaziarl]

If I remember correctly transwarp still warps subspace in a way that could concievably damage it. The subspace eddies on the other hand are more like a door from one layer to the other. They also happen naturally, and so possably can be created with little impact to the surrounding enviroment. Also, IIRC, paris's shuttle could still tell where he was. Please correct me if i'm wrong. As i said, havent seen it in a while

 

[TrekGuide.com]

There are many examples of alternate modes of travel on "Star Trek":

The Vaadwaur network of subspace corridors in the Delta Quadrant:
http://trekguide.com/padd/vaadwaur.htm

The Hirogen subspace relay network in the Delta Quadrant (which was used to transmit the Voyager EMH program to the Alpha Quadrant, so in the future, it might be modified to transmit transporter patterns of living people or entire ships):
http://trekguide.com/padd/hirogen.htm

The Iconian gateway network throughout the Galaxy (as seen in TNG's "Contagion" and DS9's "To the Death").

And also the Borg's transwarp conduits, as someone else mentioned.

Then, of course, there are wormholes. ...

 

[Kaziarl]

There are many examples of alternate modes of travel on "Star Trek":

The Vaadwaur network of subspace corridors in the Delta Quadrant:
http://trekguide.com/padd/vaadwaur.htm

The Hirogen subspace relay network in the Delta Quadrant (which was used to transmit the Voyager EMH program to the Alpha Quadrant, so in the future, it might be modified to transmit transporter patterns of living people or entire ships):
http://trekguide.com/padd/hirogen.htm

The Iconian gateway network throughout the Galaxy (as seen in TNG's "Contagion" and DS9's "To the Death").

And also the Borg's transwarp conduits, as someone else mentioned.

Then, of course, there are wormholes. ...

I understand there are other ways. The basis of the question was would it be possible to use these subspace eddies in such a manor? Does anyone remember the episode they were in? or have any information on them? Memory Alpha doesn't seem to have a page made for that anomaly yet.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Memory Alpha doesn't seem to have a page made for that anomaly yet.

I'm not surprised. The phillistines don't even have a page for sombreros, either.

 

[Kaziarl]

Ok, I found more information. It's actually called an Astral Eddy.

Anyway, according to Memory Alpha, a ship that is caught in the interfold layer of an astral eddy is undetectable from normal space. But, it can transmit a subspace signal, and I'm assuming still form a warp field and use sensors to see whats in normal space.

Now from what I understand of Warp travel is that a ship creates a warp bubble and pushes itself partially into subspace. Now these astral eddies connect normal and subspace through this interfold layer, would this be more efficient then simply warping space?

 

[Deks]

Most, if not all propulsion technologies in Trek utilize Subspace as a component to achieve a certain result.
The only difference between these techs is that some of them result in higher speeds compared to regular Warp.

If you want to create a setting in which ships need to travel faster than light, but avoid using subspace to do it ... then eliminating most of the propulsion techs is the answer.

Slipstream on the other hand to my knowledge was not mentioned to use Subspace.
It's one of the fastest techs available in the late 24th century and might be used for your purposes.

The jump gate system is absurd for Trek in my opinion as ships were intended to be self-sufficient.
The Borg used a TW hub which acted like a gate ... but only at a starting point and most of the Borg vessels already had TW drive.

 

[JNG]

You might want to consider a modified form of the soliton wave business from "New Ground." Subspace seems to have been involved in some way, but is vague enough to be repurposed.

 

[Kaziarl]

You might want to consider a modified form of the soliton wave business from "New Ground." Subspace seems to have been involved in some way, but is vague enough to be repurposed.

I thought of that, but I don't know how it works. I know it all boils down to the thingimawhatsit interfacing with the whatchamacallit. Just meaningless technobabble really, I just want it to sound plausible. And I think starfleet would look into the astral eddies for more then a source of plasma, but who knows.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

Generating an astral eddy would be iffy IMO, since subspace technology probably won't work (at all or very well) in the scenario you're proposing, and it is a subspace phenemonen. But if you find a way to capture and control a naturally occuring eddy, it could be plausibly used as a propulsion system. That could be a very intersting situation where you'd have "Eddy Herders" who capture the naturally occuring eddies and sell them at exorbitant prices. Ships would tote around inside their eddies, the only known comonly-available method of FTL transit to work meaningfully enough to be useful. But they'd have to of course leave the eddy to do sublight operations, leaving it sitting around like a big glowy cloudy version of the Jedi hyperdrive rings.

 

[Kaziarl]

Well the story itself is set after the subspace layer has healed itself, much like our own environment will repair itself if we stop interfering.

 

[Deks]

In that case, you don't have to worry about the subspace damage because it's been repaired as you said ... and SF (plus other races) modified their existing propulsion technology after TNG ended so it doesn't have adverse effects on subspace as it did before.

If you want to use new propulsion technology though for SF ships ... my guess is that you would have to utilize something that SF was exposed to and would be able to use.
Slipstream comes to mind given the fact Voyager used it on 2 occasions (the first time they only modified their warp core and deflector array to achieve the desired result ... second time around they created a full blown system with a separate power source, otherwise known as 'benemite crystals' which were decaying rather fast and took relatively long time to synthesize).
So you could expand on that existing tech and just improve on it.
The ships would not only be able to travel vast distances in a short amount of time, but that system doesn't require a gate type system either (which somehow doesn't fit with Trek's individual starship design).

 

[TEH BABA]

Wing commander uses jump points. Need jump drive usually they are around a gravatational body. similar stars planets etc.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You might want to consider a modified form of the soliton wave business from "New Ground." Subspace seems to have been involved in some way, but is vague enough to be repurposed.

I thought of that, but I don't know how it works. I know it all boils down to the thingimawhatsit interfacing with the whatchamacallit. Just meaningless technobabble really, I just want it to sound plausible. And I think starfleet would look into the astral eddies for more then a source of plasma, but who knows.

Soliton waves would be the best way to go about this, actually, even with a slight retcon of saying that a ship riding a soliton wave is basically invisible to a ship outside the wave (think of the hyperspace gates from Cowboy Bebop). You could explain it simply as a kind of modified deflector beam, creating a single immense "warp wave" that travels across the universe to a specific target. This would require very precise navigation and coordinate control, but you couldn't really justify it unless you fixed it so soliton gates allow travel ten to twenty times faster than warp drive (and reduce warp drive to the "extremely fast/speed of plot" local drive and eliminate impulse altogether).

 

[Unicron]

That's kind of how the Tachyon gates work. The ship is actually transported fast enough that you could look back at the previous gate, and see a reflection of your ship entering the gate since you moved faster than the light reflecting off your ship. I would assume the capital ships can generate their own tachyon waves, since their jumps resemble those of Star Wars ships (acceleration and vanishing) and they can make several jumps sequentially without needing any sort of recharge. The game doesn't go into much detail regarding such engines, so it's difficult to evaluate some points.