Re-writing the climax of STiD

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm not sure why you're jumping to the conclusion that because I pointed out a flaw in the film that I therefore consider that flaw an unrecoverable flaw that ruins the film. Yes, the "only ship in range" flaw exists in quite a bit of prior Trek and I'm not giving those shows a free pass. Nor am I claiming that this flaw ruins the film. Take my post at face value and don't read so much into it. I had problems with the film, but I rather liked Into Darkness.

Well, the comments from this and the Orci thread below didn't exactly seem like glowing reviews, so I inferred that you weren't the biggest fan. However, I only mentioned that you seemed to consider these particular flaws a major issue, possibly a dealbreaker, not that you didn't enjoy anything about the films.

So what you're saying is that Abrams' Trek films aren't broken because you like them? Perhaps some of us don't feel that they reached their goal of being "exciting action-adventure movies" and thus claim they're broken films because they didn't achieve their goal?

Yes, because whether or not a franchise is broken is an opinion. Star Trek from a financial point of view obviously isn't broken (not as great as hoped for, but definitely not broken), but from a creative point of view it is to certain people.

Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.

 

[M'Sharak]

Spacious argument.

If it's so spacious, does it mean there is room for different opinions?

Good - someone else caught that besides me.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Spacious argument.

If it's so spacious, does it mean there is room for different opinions?

Good - someone else caught that besides me.

Of course people can offer different opinions. And maybe I didn't use the right word.

However, when I stated my opinion about the climax, the pacing, and basic story telling, I cited examples. No one has offered an opinion different to my own with anything even approaching that.

 

[SeerSGB]

1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.

Marcus could have also already had the Enterprise and Kirk flagged as rogues. Sends the rest of the fleet on a wild goose chase to find them while he goes to deal with it personally.

 

[Kemaiku]

1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.

Marcus could have also already had the Enterprise and Kirk flagged as rogues. Sends the rest of the fleet on a wild goose chase to find them while he goes to deal with it personally.

7 good reasons. And in what, two hours?

 

[Set Harth]

Best of Both Worlds, and lots more

I take it you weren't impressed with Mars Defense?

 

[Kemaiku]

Best of Both Worlds, and lots more

I take it you weren't impressed with Mars Defense?

I still want to know whose idea it was to put warp nacelles on Typhoon class submarines and launch them into space.

Hoping the Borg would die of confusion from LOLbombs?

 

[SeerSGB]

Best of Both Worlds, and lots more

I take it you weren't impressed with Mars Defense?

I still want to know whose idea it was to put warp nacelles on Typhoon class submarines and launch them into space.

Hoping the Borg would die of confusion from LOLbombs?

I'm a bastard: first time I saw that scene in BoBW, I wasn't thinking "Wow the Borg are a serious threat", I started laughing. It's just the way they roll through, pow, pow, pow, and don't stop. Sort of "Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you"

 

[Kemaiku]

Yeah, those are the lamest defences I've ever seen, it was just hilarious after the Battle of Wolf 359 that they just sent out 3 glorified satellites with motors.

 

[Mountie1988]

Guys, believe it or not, but space is really really big! Even between Earth and its Moon, such a vast distance, you simply do not 'see' something if you're not actually looking for it.

Sure one may say: 'with all this sophisticated technology they should have gotten some sensor readings' but then again, Vengeance jammed all of Enterprise's signals with Anti-Leptons or whatever

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field

 

[BillJ]

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field

I know. No Star Trek fan should have to put up with a fun and exciting movie. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.

 

[Kelthaz]

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field

I know. No Star Trek fan should have to put up with a fun and exciting movie. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.

Oh, please.

 

[BillJ]

Really, this movie has some more serious problems than the undetected battle in Earth's gravity field

I know. No Star Trek fan should have to put up with a fun and exciting movie. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.

Oh, please.

That's the type of response one should expect when they say the movie has problems yet doesn't list any of them.

 

[Mountie1988]

Hey, I liked this movie a lot. My girlfriend, not so much. Too much violence. My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes. I understand this and I've got some more issues like...
1. Vengeance too developed compared to Starfleet's flagship
2. Khan slaughtering dozens of Klingons without being hit once
3. Big bad ship, once again
4. Too much comic influence

But that's not my point. My point is: Space is really really big.
Nice try to detract...

 

[SeerSGB]

Hey, I liked this movie a lot. My girlfriend, not so much. Too much violence. My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes. I understand this and I've got some more issues like...
1. Vengeance too developed compared to Starfleet's flagship
2. Khan slaughtering dozens of Klingons without being hit once
3. Big bad ship, once again
4. Too much comic influence

But that's not my point. My point is: Space is really really big.
Nice try to detract...

Star Trek has always had a problem with depicting scale when it comes to space. Especially when it comes to space battles. Truth is, if they did it "accurately", it'd be pretty fucking boring cause the ships wouldn't even be in visual range of each other, much less as close as they get in the movies and shows.

 

[OpenMaw]

That's the type of response one should expect when they say the movie has problems yet doesn't list any of them.

Do you have to belittle people with different opinions than yours? I mean, I like the movie, but that doesn't mean I don't have some criticisms. That doesn't mean "I want it to be boring."

 

[BillJ]

That's the type of response one should expect when they say the movie has problems yet doesn't list any of them.

Do you have to belittle people with different opinions than yours? I mean, I like the movie, but that doesn't mean I don't have some criticisms. That doesn't mean "I want it to be boring."

After spending four years being belittled over these movies, being called the "drooling masses" and a fan of "least common denominator" fare. A bit of turnabout is fair play.

 

[ichab]

Do you honestly think 99% of viewers even noticed or cared about the physics issues of the Enterprise falling to Earth or whether other Starfleet ships came out to fight?

The physics? No. But a 1 on 1 ship battle right on Earth's doorstep without any intervention from StarFleet is a pretty big plothole. Especially after the entire movie is spent telling us how Earth is gearing up for war with the Klingons and that should include some defense for your home planet.

Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.

It's a bit of a Trek staple.

* TMP, Enterprise only ship in range of an attacker that's a couple days from Earth.

* TSFS, Kirk steals the Enterprise and Excelsior is the only ship that tries to run her down. No system patrol ships? No other starships hanging around that could have gave chase. It was pretty clear where Kirk was going, there should have been a half dozen ships dropping out of warp behind him. Hell, the amount of time it took them to hack the spacedoors, there should have been a couple ships waiting.

* GEN, Enterprise B is the only ship in range of the ships in distress.

Hell during all of The Wrath Of Khan I was asking where the rest of the fleet was.

 

[JarodRussell]

The thing is, in STD Earth has now been attacked TWICE and still no defense system was anywhere to be seen.


In Best of Both Worlds, we got a glimpse of primitive solar system defense, and well the whole Earth defense fleet gathered at Wolf 359. The fleet got complete destroyed, that's why there were no ships left near Earth.

The second time Earth got attacked, there was the First Contact big ass space battle with countless of ships.

And in Voyager Endgame, there was again a whole fleet waiting.

 

[Commishsleer]

My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes.

This worried him?
Tell your brother to "man up". Thats what I'd tell my brother.

What does he think of the Borg queen robocop style - that gives me the creeps but I still endure.