"Time is their (organics) beast. Time is my beast. It bites each of us differently." -- The Doctor
Re-Watching DS9
- Thread starter Lord Garth
- Start date
I wish I had a DeLorean. Then I could go whenever I'd want. I'd time-travel to January 20th, 2029. And then just continue to go about things.
Also, I'd visit the real 23rd and 24th Centuries, to see what they'd really be like. Nothing like Star Trek, I know, but still...
Also, I'd visit the real 23rd and 24th Centuries, to see what they'd really be like. Nothing like Star Trek, I know, but still...
I'd be afraid of what I'd find then. I might go back to the Clinton Administration, watch DS9 as it aired.
I ended up waiting for the weekend, but we're here. The 100th Episode of DS9!
"The Ship"
This is how you start a season! What about "Apocalypse Rising" someone might ask? Not to knock "Apocalypse Rising", but it was really more like Season 4 Episode 27. "The Ship", on the other hand? This was a knock-out. It shows how senseless hostilities can be and the lengths people are willing to go to protect what's theirs. I normally don't do this, but I'm giving the rating right up front. I give it a 10.
This episode also goes the extra mile in making us care about those who are killed. We see the crewmembers on the Runabout, and one of them was an interesting looking alien who stood out to me. So, I felt worse about her being killed since I could attach a face that stands out to the Runabout that was destroyed. And there was a lot of interaction between Muniz and O'Brien early on in the episode that made us feel like we were getting to know Muniz, before he was shot.
Worf and O'Brien both view themselves as soldiers, or warriors as Worf would put it, but their outlooks on life-or-death couldn't be more different and the contrast breaks out into sharply conflicting viewpoints that stem naturally from the characters. O'Brien wants to Muniz to hold on to the hope that he's going to survive. Worf tells O'Brien that if he were really his friend, he'd let Muniz prepare for death. It starts to turn violent before Sisko puts a stop to it.
I haven't even gotten to the main plot yet. Sisko and his crew find a crashed Dominion ship that they want to take back to Starfleet. The Dominion arrive, and the Vorta, Kilina, tells Sisko they want their ship back. Sisko tells her, "Was your ship, now it's mine." And that right there is the line drawn in the sand. Sisko and crew are able to deduce that the Dominon doesn't want to destroy the ship because they're after something valuable. What worked in my viewing favor was that I forgot what they wanted. So, the episode had me guessing about what it could be.
The Dominion ship is cramped, dark, and everything onboard is completely alien. Sisko, Worf, Dax, and O'Brien have to figure everything out and are having a hard time of it, while the Dominion are out there boxing them in. It becomes really tense, especially as things turned violent between Worf and O'Brien as mentioned earlier. Dax tries to pull a joke and Sisko tells her, "In case you hadn't noticed, no one's laughing." And then Sisko tells everyone to pull it together and start acting like professionals. He really lays down the law, and then everyone focuses on what they have to do to try to get out of this situation. And it's somehow fitting that everyone was watching over Muniz as he was dying but no one was watching when he finally died. O'Brien goes over to Muniz to tell him he could've used his help, and then just sees his body there.
My first instinct was that the Dominion were after a weapon or a component for a weapon. The joys of not remembering everything! And then I was surprised to find out it was a dying Changeling. Didn't see that coming! But now that I'm thinking about it, I should've. Since the Changelings, the Founders, are valued by the Dominion above all else. Which is also perfectly in character for them. It makes sense, from their perspective, why the Jem'Hadar would kills themselves for failing to protect a God. It also makes sense, from Kilina's perspective, why she wouldn't want to tell Sisko they wanted to save one of the Founders because of what she thought they might do. And finally, from Sisko's perspective, it makes sense why he wouldn't trust anything Kilina said since everything she said all along was a lie.
In the end: Kilina leaves and Sisko has the Dominion ship. Worf and O'Brien mend fences by staying with Muniz's body. And Sisko talks to Dax about everyone who died. Most episodes of Star Trek wouldn't have the Captain talking about all of the people who died, or what they were like, but "The Ship" took the time to.
This is the part where I'd give the rating but, since I already did that, I'll say this episode was an Instant Classic.
"The Ship"
This is how you start a season! What about "Apocalypse Rising" someone might ask? Not to knock "Apocalypse Rising", but it was really more like Season 4 Episode 27. "The Ship", on the other hand? This was a knock-out. It shows how senseless hostilities can be and the lengths people are willing to go to protect what's theirs. I normally don't do this, but I'm giving the rating right up front. I give it a 10.
This episode also goes the extra mile in making us care about those who are killed. We see the crewmembers on the Runabout, and one of them was an interesting looking alien who stood out to me. So, I felt worse about her being killed since I could attach a face that stands out to the Runabout that was destroyed. And there was a lot of interaction between Muniz and O'Brien early on in the episode that made us feel like we were getting to know Muniz, before he was shot.
Worf and O'Brien both view themselves as soldiers, or warriors as Worf would put it, but their outlooks on life-or-death couldn't be more different and the contrast breaks out into sharply conflicting viewpoints that stem naturally from the characters. O'Brien wants to Muniz to hold on to the hope that he's going to survive. Worf tells O'Brien that if he were really his friend, he'd let Muniz prepare for death. It starts to turn violent before Sisko puts a stop to it.
I haven't even gotten to the main plot yet. Sisko and his crew find a crashed Dominion ship that they want to take back to Starfleet. The Dominion arrive, and the Vorta, Kilina, tells Sisko they want their ship back. Sisko tells her, "Was your ship, now it's mine." And that right there is the line drawn in the sand. Sisko and crew are able to deduce that the Dominon doesn't want to destroy the ship because they're after something valuable. What worked in my viewing favor was that I forgot what they wanted. So, the episode had me guessing about what it could be.
The Dominion ship is cramped, dark, and everything onboard is completely alien. Sisko, Worf, Dax, and O'Brien have to figure everything out and are having a hard time of it, while the Dominion are out there boxing them in. It becomes really tense, especially as things turned violent between Worf and O'Brien as mentioned earlier. Dax tries to pull a joke and Sisko tells her, "In case you hadn't noticed, no one's laughing." And then Sisko tells everyone to pull it together and start acting like professionals. He really lays down the law, and then everyone focuses on what they have to do to try to get out of this situation. And it's somehow fitting that everyone was watching over Muniz as he was dying but no one was watching when he finally died. O'Brien goes over to Muniz to tell him he could've used his help, and then just sees his body there.
My first instinct was that the Dominion were after a weapon or a component for a weapon. The joys of not remembering everything! And then I was surprised to find out it was a dying Changeling. Didn't see that coming! But now that I'm thinking about it, I should've. Since the Changelings, the Founders, are valued by the Dominion above all else. Which is also perfectly in character for them. It makes sense, from their perspective, why the Jem'Hadar would kills themselves for failing to protect a God. It also makes sense, from Kilina's perspective, why she wouldn't want to tell Sisko they wanted to save one of the Founders because of what she thought they might do. And finally, from Sisko's perspective, it makes sense why he wouldn't trust anything Kilina said since everything she said all along was a lie.
In the end: Kilina leaves and Sisko has the Dominion ship. Worf and O'Brien mend fences by staying with Muniz's body. And Sisko talks to Dax about everyone who died. Most episodes of Star Trek wouldn't have the Captain talking about all of the people who died, or what they were like, but "The Ship" took the time to.
This is the part where I'd give the rating but, since I already did that, I'll say this episode was an Instant Classic.
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I absolutely LOVE "THE SHIP"! It's one of the few times we see a captain truly agonize over the cost of lost people under their command.
I also love how the ship was upside down, which is unique in itself in the franchise. But realistic because sometimes that's exactly what might happen.
Muniz's death is also keenly felt because we got to know him in 2 other season 4 episodes: "STARSHIP DOWN" and "HARD TIME".
Part of me always wondered if the ceremony Worf spoke of was a real one or fake, precisely because it would be his way of apologizing to O'Brien. He's made fake Klingon stuff before... the 'test' he gave Sito in "Lower Decks".
This episode is also an easy 10 for me. Just an excellent way to honor DS9's 100th episode birthday.
It's hard for me to rewatch "The Ship". I don't really think it's an amazing episode, exactly, but it is pretty good, and I do like that the lower decks are given faces, and as Farscape noted, Muniz's death hits harder because we had seen him in earlier episodes. But showing the runabout crew was also a nice touch, and it's easy to imagine someone arguing there was no need to show them.
I found myself trying to imagine this as a TNG episode and I just couldn't.
I found myself trying to imagine this as a TNG episode and I just couldn't.
I have to change my rating for "Walkabout" (B5) to a 7. It's different for me watching Babylon 5, because I have no idea what happens next. Mostly.
But anyway...
My proper review of "Grey 17 Is Missing" will be coming very soon. At some point before I go to bed. So anywhere between now and the wee hours of the morning (my time). But I had to get this out of my system first.
All I know is what was originally going to be Seasons 4 and 5 got condensed into just Season 4, because JMS thought the series was ending. Then he found out it was continuing, so there's a Season 5 that wasn't part of the original plan, and there's a woman Captain. I don't know anything about her, but I've been on the Internet for 30 years, been part of sci-fi communities for just as long, and I haven't lived under a rock. Everything else I don't know about. So, don't tell me!
But anyway...
I was way too sympathetic of Franklin's journey to go find himself. I thought to myself, "It reminds me of when I was in my 20s and had to go find myself, even though he's not in his 20s. This is a serialized show, not everything needs to be wrapped up in one episode, I'll let it pass."
But now, in "Grey 17 Is Missing", which I've just finished watching, Ivanova finds Franklin hunkered down, being moody, asking to be left alone, and not cooperating (about something vital to the war effort!) unless he's left alone! So now, he's regressed to being like a child.
Grow the fuck up, and fucking find yourself already, Franklin!
Yeah, I thought it was fine in "Walkabout", but now? After watching "Grey 17 Is Missing"? If this is how his continuing story arc is going to be, then I'd rather they'd have just wrapped it up in that one episode.
I still love the other half of the episode, where Sheridan scores a win against the Shadows and learns how to fight them in ship-to-ship combat, thanks to Telepaths.
But now, in "Grey 17 Is Missing", which I've just finished watching, Ivanova finds Franklin hunkered down, being moody, asking to be left alone, and not cooperating (about something vital to the war effort!) unless he's left alone! So now, he's regressed to being like a child.
Grow the fuck up, and fucking find yourself already, Franklin!
Yeah, I thought it was fine in "Walkabout", but now? After watching "Grey 17 Is Missing"? If this is how his continuing story arc is going to be, then I'd rather they'd have just wrapped it up in that one episode.
I still love the other half of the episode, where Sheridan scores a win against the Shadows and learns how to fight them in ship-to-ship combat, thanks to Telepaths.
My proper review of "Grey 17 Is Missing" will be coming very soon. At some point before I go to bed. So anywhere between now and the wee hours of the morning (my time). But I had to get this out of my system first.
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Season 4 only lost four episodes to make room for season 5 content.
"Grey 17 Is Missing" (B5 S3E19)
Great episode for the majority of it, but I can't believe they named it after the stupidest part of the episode! Garibaldi ends up on Deck 17, which the elevator usually skips over and then a bunch of nonsense happens. At the end, Sheridan asks Garibaldi where he was. Garibaldi starts explaining, and it sounds like so much nonsense, it's like the episode is self-aware of it. Got that out of the way because that's all I'm going to talk about it.
Onto the far more interesting part. Delenn is poised to replace Sinclar as leader of the Rangers, a.k.a. the next Ranger One. Then Neroon shows up and insists that a member of the Minbari Warrior Caste lead the Rangers. Neroon is willing to kill Delenn over it. Then Lennier tells Marcus, and Marcus wants to fight Neroon to stop him from killing Delenn.
My thinking was that I don't care how good Marcus is, it's probably suicidal to fight against Neroon. But Marcus holds up his end of the fight. He was doing pretty well. It's supposed to be a fight to the death, but Neroon only injures Marcus and knocks him out. Which brought me to the question of: if Neroon can't be defeated, how will he be stopped from killing Delenn? He's not exactly the reasonable type.
Then JMS pulled a rabbit out of the hat that I didn't even think of: he realized that a non-Minbari was willing to die for Delenn, but no non-Minbari would ever die for him, and he was going to kill a Minbari when no Minbari had ever killed another. So, on both fronts, he felt like a lesser Minbari, and that's why he allowed Delenn to become Ranger One. His rigid "moral" code worked against him.
Earlier in the episode, Neroon tried paint it as if Delenn was a religious zealot hungry for power. Nope, Neroon. You're confusing Delenn with Kai Winn. Wrong show! He's also doing a lot of self-projection because he's zealous -- and jealous -- and hungry for power. He was describing himself, not Delenn.
Fortunately, Neroon shows a lot of nuances in this episode. Not only does he have the wisdom to understand why Delenn should lead the Rangers, but he spared Marcus and acknowledged him as a worthy warrior. So, good episode for Neroon! That's a sentence I never thought I'd type.
In other news, Sheridan wants Ivanova to get information from Franklin about where to find rogue Telepaths that Psi Corps can't locate. And Franklin, in little kid mode, will only cooperate if he's left alone afterwards, so he can pout in his room. Sorry, I mean Downbelow. Ivanova's progress after that isn't followed up on, so I'll assume these Telepaths will be found in a later episode.
Overall, the Garibaldi subplot wasn't bad, just stupid. It felt more like it belonged in Season 1. The main story about Delenn ascending to the position of Ranger One was done well. So, despite the Garibaldi silliness and Franklin's nonsense, I'm going to go with an 8.
It should be a 9, but the Garibaldi silliness drags it down. Luckily it was inoffensive enough that it didn't drag things down too much.
Onto the far more interesting part. Delenn is poised to replace Sinclar as leader of the Rangers, a.k.a. the next Ranger One. Then Neroon shows up and insists that a member of the Minbari Warrior Caste lead the Rangers. Neroon is willing to kill Delenn over it. Then Lennier tells Marcus, and Marcus wants to fight Neroon to stop him from killing Delenn.
My thinking was that I don't care how good Marcus is, it's probably suicidal to fight against Neroon. But Marcus holds up his end of the fight. He was doing pretty well. It's supposed to be a fight to the death, but Neroon only injures Marcus and knocks him out. Which brought me to the question of: if Neroon can't be defeated, how will he be stopped from killing Delenn? He's not exactly the reasonable type.
Then JMS pulled a rabbit out of the hat that I didn't even think of: he realized that a non-Minbari was willing to die for Delenn, but no non-Minbari would ever die for him, and he was going to kill a Minbari when no Minbari had ever killed another. So, on both fronts, he felt like a lesser Minbari, and that's why he allowed Delenn to become Ranger One. His rigid "moral" code worked against him.
Earlier in the episode, Neroon tried paint it as if Delenn was a religious zealot hungry for power. Nope, Neroon. You're confusing Delenn with Kai Winn. Wrong show! He's also doing a lot of self-projection because he's zealous -- and jealous -- and hungry for power. He was describing himself, not Delenn.
Fortunately, Neroon shows a lot of nuances in this episode. Not only does he have the wisdom to understand why Delenn should lead the Rangers, but he spared Marcus and acknowledged him as a worthy warrior. So, good episode for Neroon! That's a sentence I never thought I'd type.
In other news, Sheridan wants Ivanova to get information from Franklin about where to find rogue Telepaths that Psi Corps can't locate. And Franklin, in little kid mode, will only cooperate if he's left alone afterwards, so he can pout in his room. Sorry, I mean Downbelow. Ivanova's progress after that isn't followed up on, so I'll assume these Telepaths will be found in a later episode.
Overall, the Garibaldi subplot wasn't bad, just stupid. It felt more like it belonged in Season 1. The main story about Delenn ascending to the position of Ranger One was done well. So, despite the Garibaldi silliness and Franklin's nonsense, I'm going to go with an 8.
It should be a 9, but the Garibaldi silliness drags it down. Luckily it was inoffensive enough that it didn't drag things down too much.
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I'm going to order the B5 Movie DVD Set after I finish Season 3. I haven't watched any reactions from Court Reacts about Babylon 5 past the point where I'm at, because now she's ahead of me, but I see on the thumbnails that she reacted to Thirdspace in the middle of Season 4.
Are you following KRAD's rewatch over at Reactor?
I haven't done that yet, but I plan to.
I have to admit that I drift in and out of this thread. I watched Babylon 5 once, and while I did enjoy it greatly, I've never really had any real desire to revisit it. I think perhaps the serialized nature of the show works against it for me in that regard. I remember standout moments and story arcs, but ask me to pinpoint it down to a specific episode, possibly even season, and I'm lost. It's like rereading your favorite chapter or passage in a book, which I know some people do. But if I'm going to read a book I want to read it from cover to cover, and in this case that would mean a complete rewatch. And as I opened with, I've never had any real desire to do that.
Court's great, glad people are finding her.
Thirdspace was set during season 4, filmed between 4 and 5, and aired near the end of 5, so you've got options. I think as long as you've seen up to episode 9 you'll be fine, but it could feel like an interruption in the ongoing story.
I guess watch it if you feel like something different, or leave it until later if you'd rather go straight to episode 10. But do watch it eventually.
The same is kind of true with In the Beginning weirdly. As long as you've seen up to season 4, episode 9 you're kind of fine (I think?), though it probably slots in more naturally after s4 or s5.
I happened upon KRAD's re-watch by accident and saw that he's on S5E2, then got out of there because he's over a season ahead of me. I don't want spoilers, and I suspect he might've mentioned things I shouldn't know yet in his earlier reviews...
... So, I'll start reading KRAD's re-watch after I finish the series. Probably in a year and some change, at my current pace.
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Due to browser issues, I can no longer access TrekBBS on my PC. As a result, I'll be taking a hiatus from reviews until I can figure out these technical issues. Posting reviews from my phone isn't my style.
UPDATE: Issue resolved. I've updated my browser and now everything runs fine.
UPDATE: Issue resolved. I've updated my browser and now everything runs fine.
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