Re-doing Voyager

[Bry_Sinclair]

As has been said several times, the borg assimilate civilizations, planets, species, they don't assimilate individuals, or as Guinan put it, they don't do anything piecemeal. Voyager would have had no problem going through their space, the only problem would be to get supplies, which could be a real inconvenience.

Not that them looking for supplies was ever anything of significance at the time the got to Borg space.

They could have done it so "Scorpion" was a bigger, epic four-parter with them dealing with the Borg, getting their asses handed to them then having to do everything possible to stay under the Collectives radar afterwards--maybe only a single episode each following season where they face off against the Borg again--though never have an outright win against them.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

As has been said several times, the borg assimilate civilizations, planets, species, they don't assimilate individuals, or as Guinan put it, they don't do anything piecemeal. Voyager would have had no problem going through their space, the only problem would be to get supplies, which could be a real inconvenience.

Not that them looking for supplies was ever anything of significance at the time the got to Borg space.

They could have done it so "Scorpion" was a bigger, epic four-parter with them dealing with the Borg, getting their asses handed to them then having to do everything possible to stay under the Collectives radar afterwards--maybe only a single episode each following season where they face off against the Borg again--though never have an outright win against them.

I don't see how you can eliminate the Borg completely since they can start over with a couple of drones as has been shown in Enterprise, the borg episode. In that episode a pair of frozen borg take over a ship, upgrade it and we can imagine that from there they could assimilate eventually whole planets. They are like a virus. You don't need many to start an epidemic.

 

[Anwar]

Exactly, look at "Q, Who" and "Best of Both Worlds" the Borg are awesome villains because just one of their ships can make starfleet fight with the back to the wall, they are vast and incomprehensible and unfathomable powerful.

But that's also the main problem with them; how do you turn this enormous, unbeatable cybernetic leviathan into a recurring villain? Voyage wouldn't have stood a chance against the Borg as portrayed in TNG.
The only way I can see it work if Voyager would have been "below the radar" of the collective. It is, after all, just one, small ship of an already encountered species, so the org might find it "irrelevant". However then you can't have many storis featuring them..

As has been said several times, the borg assimilate civilizations, planets, species, they don't assimilate individuals, or as Guinan put it, they don't do anything piecemeal. Voyager would have had no problem going through their space, the only problem would be to get supplies, which could be a real inconvenience.

Problem was, TNG showed them doing just that (piecemeal).

They should've just had the 8472 annihilate 99% of the Collective so all that's left are ships weaker than Voyager, and then have Q get rid of the 8472 to keep them from harming Humanity.

That way, the Borg are reduced to the point they're a normal enemy and the audience can't complain because they already knew that the Borg were nothing compared to Q.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

But as we saw later 8472 were pretty reasonable people.

 

[Anwar]

But as we saw later 8472 were pretty reasonable people.

I said "Get rid of" not "destroy". In this scenario I'm describing Q just sends them all back to Fluidic Space and seals it permanently or brainwashes them all into never returning.

And then he says "By the way, if not for your intervention the Galaxy would've been destroyed. Kudos." before leaving.

Just so anyone with half a brain cell can get it: Voyager crew are big heroes who saved the Galaxy.

 

[Orphalesion]

^ Locutus was an exception in BOBW, he was meant to be an ambassador or some such.

Also I don't think Q would just have removed Species 8472, after all he didn't remove the borg either.
Species 8472 had beef with the borg for invading fluidic space, it would have been reasonable to reveal that Species 8472 had no interest in the rest of non fluidic space and just went home.
If we only kept the telepathic nurse around instead of the douchy cook or the amazing wallpaper boy, she could have helped communicating with them.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

^ Locutus was an exception in BOBW, he was meant to be an ambassador or some such.

Also I don't think Q would just have removed Species 8472, after all he didn't remove the borg either.
Species 8472 had beef with the borg for invading fluidic space, it would have been reasonable to reveal that Species 8472 had no interest in the rest of non fluidic space and just went home.
If we only kept the telepathic nurse around instead of the douchy cook or the amazing wallpaper boy, she could have helped communicating with them.

Did you know that "locutus" is the latin word for "spoken"?

Kes was having nightmares about 8472.

 

[Anwar]

^ Locutus was an exception in BOBW, he was meant to be an ambassador or some such.

Still an example of doing things piecemeal.

Also I don't think Q would just have removed Species 8472, after all he didn't remove the borg either.

He introduced them to the Borg as part of a test. If he saw the 8472 as intruders in his "experiment" he'd remove them.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

^ Locutus was an exception in BOBW, he was meant to be an ambassador or some such.

Still an example of doing things piecemeal.

Also I don't think Q would just have removed Species 8472, after all he didn't remove the borg either.

He introduced them to the Borg as part of a test. If he saw the 8472 as intruders in his "experiment" he'd remove them.

"Locutus" was meant to be an ambassador, so I don't think that qualifies as doing things piecemeal.

Q didn't lift a finger when the Dominion was tearing the alpha quadrant apart. I doubt he cares about that sort of thing one way or the other.

 

[Orphalesion]

Did you know that "locutus" is the latin word for "spoken"?

No, I did not know that! That fits even better, he is the speaker to the Federation after all.

He introduced them to the Borg as part of a test. If he saw the 8472 as intruders in his "experiment" he'd remove them.

That's your interpretation and speculation, we have nothing shown on-screen that supports that. Indeed we don't even know exactly why Q introduced the Enterprise to the borg, it's all just fan speculation.
And as Kobayshi said, he did not remove the Dominion either.

Likewise we don't know that Species 8472 would have come as an invading force to non-fluidic space. That was Janeway's theory to justify working with the borg. Of course they were pissed at Janeway, she was helping the borg, the people that had invaded their home and attacked them.

 

[Anwar]

If they didn't want to be attacked by Voyager, they shouldn't have attacked first.

As for Q and the Dominion, he probably knew that was something they could win. And they had the Prophets.

 

[Orphalesion]

If they didn't want to be attacked by Voyager, they shouldn't have attacked first.

It was one member of Species 8472 attacking a handful of Voyager guys on a borg cube.
First of all, how do the actions of that one, random individual reflect on the rest of the species? That's like idk, the US attacking Norway, because one Norwegian guy shot an US marine and then saying "Well, Norway shouldn't have attacked first!"

As to why that single individual attacked Harry and the others....we don't know, Janeway sure as hell wasn't interested in finding out.
For all we know it was a frightened young grunt accidentally left behind by his squadron aboard an enemy ship and had been attacked by borg drones for the last several hours. It might not even have been thinking clearly when it saw some more beings that vaguely looked like the borg and attacked out of panic. (a bit of speculation on my part, but just in order to demonstrate how differently the situation can be interpreted)

As for Q and the Dominion, he probably knew that was something they could win. And they had the Prophets.

But still, weren't they entreating on his "experiment" as you call it? A huge outside influence like that could falsify the test results. Again we are working under the assumption here that Q has an "experiment" with humanity in relation to the borg, would remove species for their benefit and would be allowed to do so by the Q continuum.

 

[Anwar]

Q said in "Q Who?" that the Feds were moving into areas of space that would contain great dangers he didn't think they'd survive. So he introduced them to the Borg to give them a "taste" of what was out there and get them out of their complacency.

In the process, they developed a lot of the tech and ships and weapons they used to fight the Dominion with.

Taking all as a whole, Q knew the war with the Dominion was inevitable and the whole thing with the Borg helped them get ready for the big war.

And if they failed against the Borg...well, then they would've just fallen to the Dominion as well.

As for the 8472, they never once even attempted communication after the first hostile encounter so it's on their heads.

 

[kirkfan]

I think 8472 is the coolest species of the delta quadrant. It took me a while to notice that they have three legs!!!

 

[Orphalesion]

Q said in "Q Who?" that the Feds were moving into areas of space that would contain great dangers he didn't think they'd survive. So he introduced them to the Borg to give them a "taste" of what was out there and get them out of their complacency.

In the process, they developed a lot of the tech and ships and weapons they used to fight the Dominion with.

Taking all as a whole, Q knew the war with the Dominion was inevitable and the whole thing with the Borg helped them get ready for the big war.

And if they failed against the Borg...well, then they would've just fallen to the Dominion as well.

Q was cranky that Picard said he didn't need him on the Enterprise and showed him that there are things out there that the Federation has no chance against. All else is fan speculation.
I see no indication that Q knew that war with the Dominion was inevitable.It is a good theory, but it is a theory, not something that was clearly shown on screen. The Dominion wasn't even a twinkling in the writers' eyes by the time of Q,Who.

As for the 8472, they never once even attempted communication after the first hostile encounter so it's on their heads.

By the next time Species 8472 and Voyager met they were already next to the borg (aka the invaders) so it was reasonable for 8472 to think they'd be enemies and in league with the borg. Further it was shown that communication with them proved incredibly difficult.
The situation I see was that Voyager was an uninvolved party stumbling onto a battlefield and Harry got hit in the crossfire.

 

[kirkfan]

I always thought that Q was kind of a prankster.

 

[Anwar]

I see no indication that Q knew that war with the Dominion was inevitable.It is a good theory, but it is a theory, not something that was clearly shown on screen. The Dominion wasn't even a twinkling in the writers' eyes by the time of Q,Who.

I know, but it fits quite well. And it fits Q's whole "Trickster Mentor" thing wherein the nasty stuff he does ends up helping in the long-run.

By the next time Species 8472 and Voyager met they were already next to the borg (aka the invaders) so it was reasonable for 8472 to think they'd be enemies and in league with the borg. Further it was shown that communication with them proved incredibly difficult.

They never even tried, aside from one Xenocidal message.

 

[Orphalesion]

I know, but it fits quite well. And it fits Q's whole "Trickster Mentor" thing wherein the nasty stuff he does ends up helping in the long-run.

I agree with that. I also like the theory that he is grooming humans to fight the Borg and/or ascend to become like the Q Continuum (or even the Q Continuum, for all we know Q is Picard's post-ascension descendant)

They never even tried, aside from one Xenocidal message.

I also agree, they weren't friendly, but sadly they did not get enough screentime to really delve into what makes them tick. Which is a shame. They kinda got handled the villain ball so that Janeway siding with the Borg would seem less of a despicable act.

 

[kirkfan]

I know, but it fits quite well. And it fits Q's whole "Trickster Mentor" thing wherein the nasty stuff he does ends up helping in the long-run.

I agree with that. I also like the theory that he is grooming humans to fight the Borg and/or ascend to become like the Q Continuum (or even the Q Continuum, for all we know Q is Picard's post-ascension descendant)

They never even tried, aside from one Xenocidal message.

I also agree, they weren't friendly, but sadly they did not get enough screentime to really delve into what makes them tick. Which is a shame. They kinda got handled the villain ball so that Janeway siding with the Borg would seem less of a despicable act.

I wonder why they weren't angry at Seven for sending one of their comrades to that Hirogen ship.