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Rap Music Should Be Included In Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

What exactly is "Rock and Roll" anyway? Whats the cutoff? I've seen posts here saying that the Beatles aren't Rock and Roll. If guys who grew up listening to and emulating Elvis Presley, Little Richard, Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry aren't Rock and Roll I'm not sure anyone is.
 
Hambone said:
It's not just the race hatred, disrespect of women and law enforcement, and glorification of drugs and violence that disgusts me...
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I'm pretty sure heavy metal is way more violent and misogynistic than rap, what with all the sadomasochistic and Satanic undertones. Would you also say that heavy metal is not really music?


When I was in school, I was taught that music had to have three elements: melody, harmony, and rhythm.
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I'm sure you were also taught in school that Columbus "discovered" America. Times change, and people learn to be more open minded and see things from a variety of perspectives.


On "American Idol" the judges tell potential "stars" that they need to have "the whole package"...meaning, in addition to passable singing ability, they have to look good and be able to follow choreography. They put musical ability on the same level as marketability.
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And Elvis Presley was totally unmarketable as a pop star because he was ugly, and had no dancing abilities, am I right?


Once upon a time, in order to be considered a musician, you had to be able to sing, write songs and play an instrument...
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Funny, but I don't recall Elvis being known for playing an instrument. And most of his hits were written by other people. In fact, you could say that about almost all early rock artists. It wasn't until the late '60s and early '70s that the whole singer-songwriter genre came into vogue.
 
Hambone said:
My hatred for rap is pretty well-known. I don't believe it belongs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame because it's not really music.

It's not just the race hatred, disrespect of women and law enforcement, and glorification of drugs and violence that disgusts me...it's also the total lack of any musical ability on the part of the so-called "artists". When I was in school, I was taught that music had to have three elements: melody, harmony, and rhythm. Rap has totally disposed of the first two elements, leaving only rhythm. For that reason it shouldn't even be considered music. If you spoon-feed children nothing but shit, they will eventually develop a taste for it. That's what rap has done to an entire generation.

But it's not just rap, either, because the entire music scene is rife with no-talent poseurs. On "American Idol" the judges tell potential "stars" that they need to have "the whole package"...meaning, in addition to passable singing ability, they have to look good and be able to follow choreography. They put musical ability on the same level as marketability. Once upon a time, in order to be considered a musician, you had to be able to sing, write songs and play an instrument...not just lip-synch and look good in the video. Could Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan or even Les Paul have made it on "Idol"?

The music industry has been dumbed-down to the point where the average dumb-ass American can't tell whether someone has put in years of practice or mere weeks. Playing an instrument at a high level is no longer respected in American culture. Sometimes I think all those kids who are studying music in college are wasting their time and their parents' money...since hardly anyone pays for music anymore, why should they? Why spend all those long hours perfecting your craft, knowing that in all liklihood your songs will just be illegally downloaded for free?

But then, the Jonas Brothers, Miley, Kanye West and Ludacris probably make more in a week than I'll earn in my entire life. So who's the idiot? Maybe it's me.
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Ha ha, "disrespect of law enforcement.":guffaw: I'll agree with you, however, about the dumbing down of the music industry. The real talent never makes it to the radio. You have to seek it out.
 
I said Elvis wasn't known for playing an instrument. He became famous because he was good looking and could sing and dance, not because he could play piano.
 
Level 2 Die-agnostic said:
Hambone said:
It's not just the race hatred, disrespect of women and law enforcement, and glorification of drugs and violence that disgusts me...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure heavy metal is way more violent and misogynistic than rap, what with all the sadomasochistic and Satanic undertones. Would you also say that heavy metal is not really music?


When I was in school, I was taught that music had to have three elements: melody, harmony, and rhythm.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you were also taught in school that Columbus "discovered" America. Times change, and people learn to be more open minded and see things from a variety of perspectives.


On "American Idol" the judges tell potential "stars" that they need to have "the whole package"...meaning, in addition to passable singing ability, they have to look good and be able to follow choreography. They put musical ability on the same level as marketability.
Click to expand...

And Elvis Presley was totally unmarketable as a pop star because he was ugly, and had no dancing abilities, am I right?


Once upon a time, in order to be considered a musician, you had to be able to sing, write songs and play an instrument...
Click to expand...

Funny, but I don't recall Elvis being known for playing an instrument. And most of his hits were written by other people. In fact, you could say that about almost all early rock artists. It wasn't until the late '60s and early '70s that the whole singer-songwriter genre came into vogue.
Click to expand...
:techman:
 
There were a few singer/songwriters: Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Bobby Darin and Buddy Holly come to mind. I cant think of Jerry Lee Lewis without seeing a piano.
 
Bad Bishop said:
The truth is that rap/hip-hop requires less vocal talent, less knowledge of musical composition and less skill in playing musical instruments than any form of popular music in the last 100 years. Rap artists don't need to demonstrate much besides "attitude" and an ability to rhyme.
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Perhaps you mean less singing talent. Good rapping, like good singing, requires a fair amount of vocal talent. Your comment reminds me of a friend of mine who happens to have a great singing voice - a classic pop/r&b/gospel voice. She thinks the same thing you think only she thinks this about all rock and roll singers. She laughs at Springsteen's voice, Mick Jagger (when he had a voice), Janice Joplin. She is shocked that people actually think David Lee Roth has a great voice.

I try to explain to her that it is a matter of context. In the context of rock and roll, all those singers do have great voices. But in the context of the genre in which my friend sings, none of them have good voices.

Well its the same with rap. Not everyone can do it although to you (just like my friend and her feelings about rock singers), think anyone can rap because it takes no talent. The only thing I can tell you, just like I told my friend, you have to listen to enough of the music in order to get a feel for what is good and what isn't.

She told me I was crazy.
 
TGCreakydoor said:
It is written to be emphasized as if it rhymes. And it does sometimes and it doesn't sometimes ... within the same piece.

That's not "free verse" that's inconsistency, and lack of discipline in the writing.

Lazy, lazy stuff.

--Ted
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That's just silly. I can think of plenty of pop/rock songs that have imperfect rhymes. Steve Miller's "Take the Money and Run" rhymes "Texas" with "facts is". And I can think of plenty of pop/rock songs that don't rhyme at all. "Strawberry Fields Forever" doesn't rhyme at all, is that lazy writing?
 
gblews said:
Bad Bishop said:
The truth is that rap/hip-hop requires less vocal talent, less knowledge of musical composition and less skill in playing musical instruments than any form of popular music in the last 100 years. Rap artists don't need to demonstrate much besides "attitude" and an ability to rhyme.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you mean less singing talent. Good rapping, like good singing, requires a fair amount of vocal talent. Your comment reminds me of a friend of mine who happens to have a great singing voice - a classic pop/r&b/gospel voice. She thinks the same thing you think only she thinks this about all rock and roll singers. She laughs at Springsteen's voice, Mick Jagger (when he had a voice), Janice Joplin. She is shocked that people actually think David Lee Roth has a great voice.

I try to explain to her that it is a matter of context. In the context of rock and roll, all those singers do have great voices. But in the context of the genre in which my friend sings, none of them have good voices.

Well its the same with rap. Not everyone can do it although to you (just like my friend and her feelings about rock singers), think anyone can rap because it takes no talent. The only thing I can tell you, just like I told my friend, you have to listen to enough of the music in order to get a feel for what is good and what isn't.

She told me I was crazy.
Click to expand...
Your friend seems a bit off base. Jagger and Joplin's sound derives from the classic blues sound ( the "b" in RnB) Springsteen and Roth are also "students" of the blues. They are no strangers to "pop" success either. Of course "rock n roll" music has never been about great singing but about creating emotion and feeling. Someone like Mariah Carey has great range and technique but in my opinion has no soul. A scream by Roger Daltry has more emotional impact than a high note by Mariah Carey (again IMO)
 
The rock and roll hall of fame is a complete joke, so who cares what is included in it?

Well I guess some people do care, just saying that I don't. Tons of incredibly important bands aren't in it, and tons of bands that have nothing to do with rock and roll are already in it.

Total joke. Even the idea of a rock and roll hall of fame goes against the entire idea of what rock and roll was supposed to be about.
 
destro said:
The rock and roll hall of fame is a complete joke, so who cares what is included in it?

Well I guess some people do care, just saying that I don't. Tons of incredibly important bands aren't in it, and tons of bands that have nothing to do with rock and roll are already in it.

Total joke. Even the idea of a rock and roll hall of fame goes against the entire idea of what rock and roll was supposed to be about.
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Pretty much. The Sex Pisols had the right idea by basically telling them to fuck off. I would have been severely disappointed in them if they'd shown up to the ceremony. :lol:
 
Nerdius Maximus said:
destro said:
The rock and roll hall of fame is a complete joke, so who cares what is included in it?

Well I guess some people do care, just saying that I don't. Tons of incredibly important bands aren't in it, and tons of bands that have nothing to do with rock and roll are already in it.

Total joke. Even the idea of a rock and roll hall of fame goes against the entire idea of what rock and roll was supposed to be about.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. The Sex Pisols had the right idea by basically telling them to fuck off. I would have been severely disappointed in them if they'd shown up to the ceremony. :lol:
Click to expand...

Yeah, Lydon was probably too busy making reality TV shows and butter commercials.
 
destro said:
The rock and roll hall of fame is a complete joke, so who cares what is included in it?

Well I guess some people do care, just saying that I don't. Tons of incredibly important bands aren't in it, and tons of bands that have nothing to do with rock and roll are already in it.

Total joke. Even the idea of a rock and roll hall of fame goes against the entire idea of what rock and roll was supposed to be about.
Click to expand...

Hit the nail on the head. What kind of an institution purporting to be a "Rock and Roll Hall of Fame" contains a confirmed rock-hater like Dave Marsh on its selection committee? That's like appointing Ernst Zundel to the board of directors of the Holocaust Museum.
 
Sorry, but rap is NOT rock.

If they want a hall of fame, start their own and be done with it.

The Hall of Fame is an utter joke, anyway. Are they really saying Michael Jackson or Madonna is more rock and roll than Rush?
 
Nerdius Maximus said:
destro said:
The rock and roll hall of fame is a complete joke, so who cares what is included in it?

Well I guess some people do care, just saying that I don't. Tons of incredibly important bands aren't in it, and tons of bands that have nothing to do with rock and roll are already in it.

Total joke. Even the idea of a rock and roll hall of fame goes against the entire idea of what rock and roll was supposed to be about.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. The Sex Pisols had the right idea by basically telling them to fuck off. I would have been severely disappointed in them if they'd shown up to the ceremony. :lol:
Click to expand...

Exactly! Good on the Pistols for treating this Hall with all the contempt it deserves!
 
Reading over the last few pages, here are the key points that come to mind:

1. Some people think the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is something that matters.
2. Some people think that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame only honours rock and roll musicians.
3. Some people think it's still funny, thirty years later, to say that rap is missing the c at the beginning.
4. Some people think that the dumbest gangsta rap is representative of the entire rap genre.

All of these people are wrong, and have already been shown to be wrong. So, moving right along...

Does anyone who's participating in this discussion actually give a fuck about the Hall of Fame? Has it ever had any impact on your life? Do you even know who has and hasn't been inducted, and would having that knowledge make any difference to what music you choose to listen to?
 
Well is cool to see the inductees and inductors jamming on stage.

Elvis Costello and Bruce Springsteen singing "london Calling" was a blast.
 
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