Rap Music Should Be Included In Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

[Nerdius Maximus]

Someone else had it right when they said people took the "rock and roll" designation too literally. At one time "rock and roll" was synonymous with the music of youth, rebellion, innovation, etc etc etc. People categorize things too much these days. With that in mind, I would consider artists like LL, Public Enemy, Run-DMC, etc to be far more "rock and roll" than the safe, predictable, watered-down cookie cutter garbage on the radio today that's being called "rock." Nickelback springs to mind. (Creed is back, too. Ugh.)
I would include in the hall of fame any artist that pushed popular music forward in some significant way. I'd have no problem with say, Depeche Mode being nominated, but people would bitch about that because it doesn't fit their criteria of what rock and roll is.

On a side note, though, there's a ton of bands that should have been nominated long ago but haven't. Ultimately the R&R hall of fame doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Neeka Keet]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

As a rock fan I'm generally disappointed that most so called rock fans aren't aware of the history and evolution of the genre. The hatred and prejudice toward the genre of hip hop is also disheartening.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

As a rock fan I'm generally disappointed that most so called rock fans aren't aware of the history and evolution of the genre.

I know what you mean. What's really annoys me is when people say things like, "I only listen to ROCK, none of that jungle bunny shit."



Or when people think they're being really clever by saying something about how "rap" is missing a "C" at the beginning of the word.

 

[OmahaStar]

Or when people think they're being really clever by saying something about how "rap" is missing a "C" at the beginning of the word.

What? People aren't being "clever" ... They're being "honest." cRap music is crap.

 

[darthraidr]

i guess most people posting didnt bother to take a minute to check out the link i provided to the past inductees...

Rap is already in the hall of fame... welcome to 2007...

and really... looking at more of the past inductees you get a lot of people who aren't "Rock and Roll" you've got James Brown, Ray Charles, Aretha Franklin, Smokie Robinson, The Temptations... Awful lotta R&B in that group...

then you get Pop Rock... so you have Madonna and Michael Jackson, The Jackson 5... (meaning, at some point we may see Christina Aguilera nominated or Brittney Spears)

so clearly "Rock and Roll" is not just "Rock." it just about any form of popular music that isnt classical. so maybe the Hall of Fame needs a new name... the "Not Classical Music Music Hall of Fame."

now if someone wanted to argue LL Cool J hasn't been as impactful as Run DMC or Grand Master Flash you'd have a stronger argument... if you want to argue there are other artists more deserving of recognition, you'd have a stronger argument (hey, no frank sinatra...)

but as it stands, the pure "Rock and Roll" inductee limitation was broken as soon as it started (the first inductees in 1986 were Chuck Berry, James Brown, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Fats Domino, The Everly Brothers, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Little Richard and Elvis Presley)

 

[Neeka Keet]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

As a rock fan I'm generally disappointed that most so called rock fans aren't aware of the history and evolution of the genre.

I know what you mean. What's really annoys me is when people say things like, "I only listen to ROCK, none of that jungle bunny shit."



Or when people think they're being really clever by saying something about how "rap" is missing a "C" at the beginning of the word.

It's very true and sad that some want to seemingly erase the history of the genre, as if rock has to be this or that. Even up to the 80s big music stars were referred to in the media as "rock stars", including Madonna, Michael Jackson, and even groups like Duran Duran.


And even though I'm not a huge rap fan I do enjoy the Beastie Boys, Run DMC, and recently M.I.A. has struck my fancy. All these artists sample or have sampled rock music liberally .

 

[Kirby]

Rap and Rock are very closely tied together. Here is a shocking story regarding their close ties.

Nation's Rappers Down To Last Two Samples

'Tiptoe Through The Tulips,' 'Mr. Roboto' Only Remaining Unused Songs

LOS ANGELES—In an announcement that has caused grave concern within the nation's hip-hop community, the American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers (ASCAP) revealed Monday that only two songs remain for rappers to sample, Tiny Tim's "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" and Styx's "Mr. Roboto."

"Such albums as Puff Daddy's No Way Out and Mase's Harlem World have taken a heavy toll on our nation's precious sample reserves, ASCAP president Richard Goffin said. "Our nation's rap artists must now face the consequences of their failure to conserve this all-too-finite resource."
Last Friday, the number of unsampled songs fell to two when rapper Master P paid $12 million for the rights to "Is It Love," the B-side to the 1986 Mr. Mister hit "Broken Wings."
"This is an extremely serious situation," said Def Jam president Russell Simmons, whose label—which has featured such artists as Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, EPMD, and LL Cool J—was responsible for much of the sample depletion of the mid- to late '80s. "Rappers may have to wait upwards of 10 years between albums, until there's enough new pop songs to sample. Other than that, the only solution is for rappers to come up with the music themselves. Let's just hope it never comes to that."

 

[Neeka Keet]

^I doubt that's possible...Oh it's from the Onion. Not really a funny article at all, and it ignores the fact that nowadays there is some composing going on in hip hop not just pure sampling.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

Rap is not rock. If rappers want a hall of fame, let them start their own.

Rap is a distinct musical style, and should get a separate grouping for it. Just like other forms, such as country, already do.

But a few country artists have already been inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame: Johnny Cash, Jimmy Reed, Carl Perkins, and you can probably include Jerry Lee Lewis on that list too. Why don't you have an problem with that?

 

[Pingfah]

Seems like the Rock and Roll term is a bit of a catch-all. Not very many of the bands in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame play actual Rock and Roll music anyway.

 

[Neroon]

^I doubt that's possible...Oh it's from the Onion. Not really a funny article at all, and it ignores the fact that nowadays there is some composing going on in hip hop not just pure sampling.

I disagree. That article seemed pretty amusing to me and even elicited an out-loud laugh. Perhaps it's because sampling has annoyed me ever since it became so pervasive. It's not ignoring the composing that may well be going on, but rather taking a well-placed jab at a technique which because of its overuse invites some parody. It wouldn't be so bad if sampling were limited to occasional use, but that's not the case. On top of that, the "substance" of the technique is rather ridiculous - using another artists' work so you don't have to create it yourself.

I used to be rather vehement in my opposition to rap/hip-hop artists being inducted in the so-called Rock and Roll Hall of Fame", but I do admit it was because I took the name of the hall too literally. Like so many things, there is a common origin. Renaming the hall the "Music Hall of Fame" seems unwieldy, too. So I don't let it bother me too much anymore.

I'm still not going to bother with the Hall, as I feel its choice of honorees too often leaves a great deal to be desired. Most would seem to be beyond question as to theri influence and belonging. For my part, the place is irrelevant anyway.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

^I doubt that's possible...Oh it's from the Onion. Not really a funny article at all, and it ignores the fact that nowadays there is some composing going on in hip hop not just pure sampling.

I disagree. That article seemed pretty amusing to me and even elicited an out-loud laugh. Perhaps it's because sampling has annoyed me ever since it became so pervasive. It's not ignoring the composing that may well be going on, but rather taking a well-placed jab at a technique which because of its overuse invites some parody. It wouldn't be so bad if sampling were limited to occasional use, but that's not the case. On top of that, the "substance" of the technique is rather ridiculous - using another artists' work so you don't have to create it yourself.

I used to be rather vehement in my opposition to rap/hip-hop artists being inducted in the so-called Rock and Roll Hall of Fame", but I do admit it was because I took the name of the hall too literally. Like so many things, there is a common origin. Renaming the hall the "Music Hall of Fame" seems unwieldy, too. So I don't let it bother me too much anymore.

I'm still not going to bother with the Hall, as I feel its choice of honorees too often leaves a great deal to be desired. Most would seem to be beyond question as to theri influence and belonging. For my part, the place is irrelevant anyway.

Well, there's different levels of sampling. The way Puffy was doing it in the 90s was just ridiculous. Basically rapping over an instrumental of the original song, for all practical purposes. But when you take little snippets from multiple songs, blend them together, tweak them and make it into something new and unrecognizable, that's art. The Beastie Boys' "Paul's Botique is a perfect example of this. That album is a masterpiece.

Still, sometimes an original instrumental fits so well with what you're doing that you just have to use it. Like this remix I did for Kool G Rap and Dj Polo's "Ill Street Blues." I chopped up the parts of the Hill Street Blues theme song that didn't have drums and made my own drum loops and fills and all that, and I thought it came together beautifully.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2187757_cvzes/illstreetblues.mp3]illstreetblues.mp3

Now this one that I did of TI's "Rubber Band Man" has got several samples in it, but they're a little more disguised. Parts of the drums are from "We Will Rock you."
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2415769_lxh2h/rubberbandman.mp3]rubberbandman.mp3

On this one of Snoop Dogg's "Drop It Like It's Hot" I sampled a bunch of different stuff, too. It's got George Clinton, Zapp and Roger, Rass Kass and Ice-T, amongst others.
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2415781_rlyd6/dropit.mp3]dropit.mp3

 

[Neeka Keet]

Sampling came about not so you didn't have to create your own music, or laziness, it came about because poor kids in NYC were no longer getting a viable music education so they weren't taught how to play musical instruments. They used the turntable as their instrument and snippets of other songs as their music for this reason.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

^I doubt that's possible...Oh it's from the Onion. Not really a funny article at all, and it ignores the fact that nowadays there is some composing going on in hip hop not just pure sampling.

I disagree. That article seemed pretty amusing to me and even elicited an out-loud laugh. Perhaps it's because sampling has annoyed me ever since it became so pervasive. It's not ignoring the composing that may well be going on, but rather taking a well-placed jab at a technique which because of its overuse invites some parody. It wouldn't be so bad if sampling were limited to occasional use, but that's not the case. On top of that, the "substance" of the technique is rather ridiculous - using another artists' work so you don't have to create it yourself.

I used to be rather vehement in my opposition to rap/hip-hop artists being inducted in the so-called Rock and Roll Hall of Fame", but I do admit it was because I took the name of the hall too literally. Like so many things, there is a common origin. Renaming the hall the "Music Hall of Fame" seems unwieldy, too. So I don't let it bother me too much anymore.

I'm still not going to bother with the Hall, as I feel its choice of honorees too often leaves a great deal to be desired. Most would seem to be beyond question as to theri influence and belonging. For my part, the place is irrelevant anyway.

Well, there's different levels of sampling. The way Puffy was doing it in the 90s was just ridiculous. Basically rapping over an instrumental of the original song, for all practical purposes. But when you take little snippets from multiple songs, blend them together, tweak them and make it into something new and unrecognizable, that's art. The Beastie Boys' "Paul's Botique is a perfect example of this. That album is a masterpiece.

Still, sometimes an original instrumental fits so well with what you're doing that you just have to use it. Like this remix I did for Kool G Rap and Dj Polo's "Ill Street Blues." I chopped up the parts of the Hill Street Blues theme song that didn't have drums and made my own drum loops and fills and all that, and I thought it came together beautifully.

http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2187757_cvzes/illstreetblues.mp3]illstreetblues.mp3

Now this one that I did of TI's "Rubber Band Man" has got several samples in it, but they're a little more disguised. Parts of the drums are from "We Will Rock you."
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2415769_lxh2h/rubberbandman.mp3]rubberbandman.mp3

On this one of Snoop Dogg's "Drop It Like It's Hot" I sampled a bunch of different stuff, too. It's got George Clinton, Zapp and Roger, Rass Kass and Ice-T, amongst others.
http://www.hotlinkfiles.com/files/2415781_rlyd6/dropit.mp3]dropit.mp3

I'll have to have a good listen to those mixes once I get home - can't do so easily at work or on my phone.

This use of using multiple samples and creating a new song (usually in the dance and hip hop genres, although some good pop and rock examples also exist), later known widely as "mash-up", has become a whole genre in itself - its spread in the last few years is largely down to access to the Internet for the most part, as well as airplay on some other radio stations. While much of it began as (and still is) strictly amateur stuff, there are some pretty decent mash-ups out there on the Net by professionals, many of whom started out as bedroom computer DJs. Perhaps most importantly, because as this sort of thing can be done with easy to get hold of and not too expensive kit, a lot of people can do it, so it's pretty accessible (heck, even I've had a go at it a few times, with little success) - just as the old days of hip hop were like as Neeka Keet explained just above.

I started a thread about mash-up nearly a year ago where I made a comment about its spread, the influences, its novelty factor, and how it's still being used in today's music. To be honest, much hasn't changed in the last year - it's still out there, mostly in the underground (and on YouTube), evading the royalty-seeking big companies and "artistes" with the same rock'n'roll attitude that other rebellious pop and rock musicians had back in the 50s.

Heck, I woldn't be surprised if in a few years' time, the likes of Danger Mouse and Osymyso were included in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.


By the way, that Onion article was pretty funny - but I actually have heard a mash-up that uses "Mr. Roboto" which was quite well received some time ago. Still to hear one with "Tiptoe Through The Tulips" though.

 

[exodus]

Rap is not rock. If rappers want a hall of fame, let them start their own.

Rap is a distinct musical style, and should get a separate grouping for it. Just like other forms, such as country, already do.

Sorry, rap and hip hop don't belong in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame any more than opera or classical do. If an artist who is primarily a rap performer has MADE an interesting, unique or significant contribution to rock & roll, that's a different story in that particular case. Generally speaking, rap is a different genre and doesn't belong. there.

Agreed on both counts, give them their own hall
Nor does Maddona, and the like
cRAP is not Rock!

Then someone years from now will scream that it's racist because they've forgotten their history on why once again something had to be segragated because a few couldn't handled the idea of intergrating.

IMO anyone that thinks Rap is not Rock has never heard or forgotten Run DMC's "Rock Box", "King of Rock"(which ironically the video is all about how Rap wasn't in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame), Mos-Def's "Umi Say" or most anything by The Roots or Beastie Boys. Both of whom play all their own instruments on all their CD's.

Rap is just the Inner city's version of Punk Rock.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl5w...D03436174&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=5

 

[Dusty Ayres]

I would also suggest that those vehemently opposed to rap being in the Hall probably simply don't like the genre.

That's the whole argument right there.

 

[ToddPence]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

Hmm . . . let's see. Gee, could it be the fact that the former possess genuine musical talent?

 

[Neeka Keet]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

Hmm . . . let's see. Gee, could it be the fact that the former possess genuine musical talent?

That's of course your opinion and considering there are already hip hop artists included in the hall of fame then arguing about it is neither here nor there.

 

[exodus]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

Hmm . . . let's see. Gee, could it be the fact that the former possess genuine musical talent?

Flavor Flav. plays 20 different instruments.

The Roots are a Rap band.

Grandmaster Flash, Mel & Run-DMC and most old school Rappers all used studio musicians before the art of sampling.

David Lee Roth possesses musical talent?
If it wasn't for Eddie, do you think he'd still there?
What musical talent does Madonna have?
James Brown & Smokey Robinson don't play any instrument either, yet nobody denies their talent.

Rap is a form of poetry. That falls under song writing. Sampling, which many rock bands use now too, falls under composition.

So yes in today world of electronica, rappers do possess musical talent.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

They have soul/R&B/Blues musicians and singers inducted in the hall of fame. Why not Hip Hop artists?

Hmm . . . let's see. Gee, could it be the fact that the former possess genuine musical talent?

Speaking of talent, many rap artists have pretty good lyrical dexterity which surely does mark them as possessing genuine talent - whether it's by devising the rhymes themselvesd, or by making sure they're uttered with conviction and clarity. Listen to much of Eminem's work (if you can go beyond his irreverent smuttiness, violent content and sometimes merciless anger, of course) for a good example of good talented rapping, particularly his clever and heavy use of assonance and other figures of speech.