Ranking the eps so far and where does DSC rank now amongst the other series?

[Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai]

To give you an example of the difference between the two let's take the last episode. We just found out that two members of the crew are gay and living together. On TNG, (which NEVER happened, so much for being trendsetting) we would have gotten this long winding speech about how much more "evolved" we are now compared to the twentieth century on relationships. The entire episode would have evolved around it and we would have been beaten over the head with that point. On DIS it was all told in a simple five minute sequence. No long rambling speeches, no pompous arrogance and no gratuitous sex involved. Just two normal guys brushing their teeth and having a conversation. We learn all we need to from it and no one had to get on a soapbox.That's clever writing and that's why DIS is so much better right now than TNG ever was that first season.

Brilliant. TNG had awesome characters, some amazing episodes, and a general sense that the franchise had moved forward. But it also had endless moralizing, usually at the expense of 20th-Century humans. I can guarantee that if a member of the Enterprise's crew had been gay, there would have been an episode in the first season that revolved around a closed-minded alien species who couldn't handle his being gay.

 

[Tesophius]

I did at times because Gebe Roddenberry was a horny old man.

Interesting.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Anyone think Troi's outfits were incidental?

 

[McDuff]

Nobody is saying TNG was terrible, the point being made is that it had a terrible beginning and wasn't until later it became a a critically acclaimed show. I love TNG, but those first season episodes were generally subpar.

Granted. My point was not about which first few episodes were the best. Which is the subject of this thread. My point is that even in Code of Honor, and the first few episodes, TNG was trying (among other things) to be something more than a great action-adventure set up in space. Even if they were not entirely successful at it in the beginning. It's something harder to come by than what Discovery is trying to do at the moment. Becoming a great action adventure space tv series like the JJ Abrams movies.

 

[Kor]

So far I think STD is better than VOY and ENT, and I find it more interesting than TNG, more along the lines of DS9. I am inclined to keep watching.

But to me, it isn't Star Trek.

Kor

 

[ralph]

So far I think STD is better than VOY and ENT, and I find it more interesting than TNG, more along the lines of DS9. I am inclined to keep watching.

But to me, it isn't Star Trek.

Kor

"So, what is Star Trek?"

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Granted. My point was not about which first few episodes were the best. Which is the subject of this thread. My point is that even in Code of Honor, and the first few episodes, TNG was trying (among other things) to be something more than a great action-adventure set up in space. Even if they were not entirely successful at it in the beginning. It's something harder to come by than what Discovery is trying to do at the moment. Becoming a great action adventure space tv series like the JJ Abrams movies.

And so what? "Code of Honor" is still terrible.

 

[Spider]

1. TOS, the original and still the best
2. TNG middle to late seasons
3. ENT 4th season
4. DS9 middle seasons
5. VOY had some individual episodes that were good

I'll rank Discovery after the first season. So far, it's first five episodes are more encouraging than the first five episodes from TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, but not TOS which is still the remaining champ.

 

[eschaton]

Granted. My point was not about which first few episodes were the best. Which is the subject of this thread. My point is that even in Code of Honor, and the first few episodes, TNG was trying (among other things) to be something more than a great action-adventure set up in space. Even if they were not entirely successful at it in the beginning. It's something harder to come by than what Discovery is trying to do at the moment. Becoming a great action adventure space tv series like the JJ Abrams movies.

I can understand this viewpoint, and agree with it. But the first five episodes of TOS did it far better than the first five episodes of TNG, and did it over 20 years earlier.

 

[ichab]

You say don't hate TNG (which is your perfect right otherwise), but your cynicism toward TNG betrays you.

The only thing my cynicism proves is that I'm honest and objective as opposed to being a blind fanboy. Frankly, I prefer the former.

There's no long speech, both sides of situations are often deeply explored (when it's that type of episodes), and humans were never perceived as more evolved (it would betrays everything TNG stand for) as we meet very different and successful beings than us.

Whatever dude. I own every season of that show and have watched it multiple times. And based on the opinions expressed here by other posters I'm not the minority on that opinion.

Homosexuality portrayed on TV is not trend setting or original anymore. 15 years too late.

Good thing I'm not trying to claim that DIS is a trendsetter.

TNG had an episode about homosexuality and transgender called the "The Outcast". The issue was viewed through sci-fi lens but it provides both point of views. It was not like the Outcast aliens were all evil, bigots and bad and we humans superior and open minded. You could understand the Outcast one-gender alien point of view. It made sense to them. And if you say you predicted the conclusion of this episode you're lying. The alien end up "corrected" and happy about it. No way you would have predicted that in all your cynicism about Star Trek TNG. Just one episode disprove all your points about TNG.

No you didn't. Once again, the subject of this thread is the first five episodes of a first season. We're not talking about the series as a whole. The fact that you have to move the goal posts to a SEASON 5 episode of TNG in order to prove that your show is better than one that's only had five episodes is quite telling. Let's see where DIS is by Season 5.

 

[McDuff]

.

I can understand this viewpoint, and agree with it. But the first five episodes of TOS did it far better than the first five episodes of TNG, and did it over 20 years earlier.

Like I said already, it goes without saying beside TOS. Star Trek TNG had to be like Star Trek TOS, keeping the spirit alive, and different at the same time. Still, TOS and TNG as a whole are different than the usual action-adventure sci-fi Hollywood production (beside Doctor Who, Stargate and few others to some degrees). It has more depth than those while still being an action-adventure sci-fi series. TNG tried to keep the spirit alive but original at the same time with tentative results at the beginning. Even Code of Honor proves that. It's harder to come by than being a great space action-adventure series like the JJ Abrams movies (for exemple, it takes writers who have something to say - and are allowed to - about humanity, our societies, history, impact of new technologies, moral values, ethical questions, etc).

 

[WinstonLegthigh]

The Next Generation
Voyager
Enterprise
Deep Space 9
The Original Series
Discovery
This is actually a fairly fluid list apart from TNG at the top.

I'd rank the Discovery episodes (so far) 5, 3, 4, 2, 1.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

McDuff, I still don't understand the point you're making. This isn't the JJ Abrams films we're talking about.

 

[XCV330]

Chose Your Pain
Context is for Kings
The Butchers yadda yadda Cry
Battle of the Twins
The Vulcan Howdy

hard to rank Disco, it hasnt been on long enough but if I had my eyelids pulled open and had to decide:

DS9
Disco
TOS
ENT
TNG
VOY
TAS

I'm not good at ranking things.

 

[McDuff]

McDuff, I still don't understand the point you're making. This isn't the JJ Abrams films we're talking about.

My point is easy to understand. Discovery, like the JJ Abrams movies, don't try to be something more than a great action-adventure space series set up in the Star Trek universe. It's easier to do than what TOS and particularly TNG was trying to do right from the beginning (exploration of humanity, societies, moral/ethical question, impact of technologies through sci-fi lens, etc). Even if Code of Honor and the first few episodes of TNG had tentative results. They aimed for something higher and eventually became highly successful and trend setters.

 

[Annorax849]

There must be something wrong with me, something I'm missing, because it's almost universally accepted that TOS had the best first season and I've watched it many times and gotta say, I don't see it.

I just got done with DS9 season 1 and found it to be much more entertaining.

Maybe I should see a doctor.

I've seen a few people say DS9 has the best first season. I don't see it, maybe better than the TNG, VOY, and ENT, but not by much imo. Now the 2nd season actually was pretty good, not as good as seasons 4-7 certainly, but easily the best 2nd season besides TOS.

My overall show ranking is DS9 > TNG > TOS > Voyager > Enterprise > TAS

And ENT would almost certainly go up if it had another season like the 4th

 

[ichab]

McDuff, I still don't understand the point you're making. This isn't the JJ Abrams films we're talking about.

I think he's trying to say that DIS is basically the J.J Abrams films on T.V. If so I have to call B.S on him even watching the show because DIS is NOTHING like those films

 

[eschaton]

McDuff, I still don't understand the point you're making. This isn't the JJ Abrams films we're talking about.

I'm not even sure in the late 1980s, when TNG came on, there was an established action-adventure sci-fi slot for it to fall into. There wasn't much sci-fi at all, discounting some barely sci-fi sitcoms and children's shows. V? Max Headroom? The Twilight Zone reboot? I'm at a loss.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

My point is easy to understand. Discovery, like the JJ Abrams movies, don't try to be something more than a great action-adventure space series set up in the Star Trek universe. It's easier to do than what TOS and particularly TNG was trying to do right from the beginning (exploration of humanity, societies, moral/ethical question, impact of technologie through sci-fi lens, etc). Even if Code of Honor and the first few episodes of TNG had tentative results. They aimed for something higher and eventually became highly successful and trend setters.

Have you actually watched Discovery? It's nothing like the Abrams films aside from aesthetics.

 

[RAMA]

Its impossible to rate series with such a low sample size, so I will do this...for the first 5 episodes, compared to the other series' 5 episodes Discovery is by far the best. Where it goes from there, who knows, but I'll probably rate it after 15.

RAMA