Can't really disagree with you there
Spoilers Rank the first seasons...
- Thread starter BlueStuff
- Start date
Can't really disagree with you there
TOS
TAS
DS9
DSC - right smack in the middle
TNG
VOY
ENT
TAS
DS9
DSC - right smack in the middle
TNG
VOY
ENT
The success of DS9 and VGR says otherwise.
Voyager was serialized?
DS9 was loosely serialized. It was also set on a space station which lent itself better to serialization.
What success? Both bled viewers the entire time they were on. There's a chart that has been posted on the various sub-forums more than once.
G
Gul Sengosts
Guest
I'm not sure if the post wasn't ironic, especially since I consider VOY the opposite of "serialised". It's notorious for how almost nothing that happens in one episode matters in any other.
Traditionally, serialized shows have always had lower ratings than episodic/procedural shows. I think this is even the case today. Reality TV, sitcoms, and procedural dramas like NCIS take up most of the top 10 most popular shows.
Neither DS9 nor Voyager would be considered serialized by today's standards.
Voyager is very serialized; it just pairs its serialization with an episodic structure.
The idea that "almost nothing that happens in one episode matters in any other" is a blatant fallacy.
Just because they don't show whole episodes of the crew repairing the ship, or hunting for food, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It means who the hell wants to watch that?
I think we can reasonably extrapolate these things take place when we're not looking.
I think we can reasonably extrapolate these things take place when we're not looking.
This is true, although DS9 would I think still be considered a semi-seralized show. Certain sections of the show (the first six episodes of Season 6, and the last 10 of Season 7) are truly serialized. Much of the remainder of the show past the first few seasons is built on sequels to earlier shows, recurring characters, or predicated on earlier character development. You can't really pick it up mid-series and follow it well.
Voyager has more elements that carry from episode to episode than is often admitted. Particularly in the second season, the writers attempted to do some serialization with the Seska arc. Neelix had weird insecurity and jealousy of Tom's friendship with Kes. The borg children are a plot element for awhile. Obviously Tom and B'elanna eventually have a baby together. There are other examples.
However, VOY was by far the least serialized of the post TOS shows. Unlike TNG, for example, there weren't many recurring characters. Only 18 guest characters appeared more than twice over the series, with most of those part of the Season 2 arc or the Borg children. Most oddly, the non-main cast is never really developed (outside of Samantha Wildman and a couple of season 2 characters who die) and remain glorified extras across the entire run.
1. TOS
2. DS9
3. ENT
4. TNG
5. VOY
6. DISC
2. DS9
3. ENT
4. TNG
5. VOY
6. DISC
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Even in the '90s, I didn't think of VOY as serialized. When they promoted the Hirogen Arc as serialized in Season 4, I remember thinking this wasn't really an arc, just that the Hirogen are who we'll be running into for a little while.
For DS9, at the time I thought it was serialized but, nowadays, I wouldn't. Except for the beginning of Season 6 and end of Season 7. Overall, though, It's more like, "They're getting there! They're getting there! But they're not quite there yet!" Semi-serialized, with some serialized pockets, sounds about right.
IIRC DS9 was pretty much one of the first serialized dramas on evening TV in the modern era. Babylon 5 came on at roughly the same time. X-Files experimented with it more as time went on as well. I think Buffy was the first serial show outside of the soap world which was considered a hit, which helped to get "modern TV" on its feet.
M
marlboro
Guest
I would watch it. Survivalist stories are interesting. I think it would have been interesting for Voyager to explore that aspect of being lost without the Federation to back them up.
By having them seem to be doing so well (considering their circumstances) it kind of defeats the point of premise of the show. It's like watching Tom Hanks in Cast Away except the entire Island is littered with workable modern conveniences and interesting people.
Voyager still had a lot of great episodes despite some of my complaints.
Edited 'cause I didn't address the actual point of the thread:
TOS
DS9 A few bad episodes excepted I think this season is pretty solid.
ENT Very hit or miss but there are some decent episodes
VOY Some good episodes. Some bad episodes. An abbreviated first seasons hurts my ranking.
TAS For what it was it was pretty damn good.
TNG Some good episodes, but the bad episodes are just so damn terrible.
Haven't watched Discovery yet.
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My understanding is the studio basically cut the legs out from under the show's premise from the get go. They wanted the most distinctive element of the show - the potential conflict between the former Maquis members and Starfleet - to be resolved immediately, and demanded the show have a lighthearted feel to remind people of TNG and contrast with the sometimes dour DS9.
M
marlboro
Guest
UPN was such a terrible network. It's hard to imagine a worse lineup of shows than the dreck they churned out.
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