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Spoilers Rank the first seasons...

It was so ridiculous. I was just there for Voyager. When I looked at everything else on UPN, I was like, "Yeah, I'm not going bother with the rest of what's on this channel."

When they were starting the network up, they should've surveyed TNG Fans (the people most likely to watch VOY) to see what type of shows they watched besides Star Trek, looked what came up the most, and then used that as a basis for figuring out what type of programming they wanted on their channel.
 
Voyager was and is the Star Trek equivalent of series like CSI, NCIS, and Fringe. It very much follows the "procedural" structure of those series in that you can jump in to it at any point and enjoy it, but will get so much more out of it if you watch it from the beginning in its intended order.
 
I haven't watched the entirety of any of the past series but I have enjoyed episodes from each of them. Voyager is my favorite of them, followed by the Next Generator, Deep Space Nine, Original Series, then Discovery. I haven't watched enough of Enterprise to make any concrete verdict but it would probably fall between Original and Discovery.
 
1. Discovery
2. Star Trek
3. Deep Space Nine
4. Voyager
5. Enterprise
6. The Next Generation
 
Just because they don't show whole episodes of the crew repairing the ship, or hunting for food, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It means who the hell wants to watch that?

:shrug:

I think we can reasonably extrapolate these things take place when we're not looking.
I meant much more than just those repairing the ship/replacing the shuttles issues. I find it most disappointing in terms of character development. There are drastic character events that happen in an episode but are completely forgotten after that episode ends.

Like the Tuvix episode, or the other one where Tuvok loses his memory and Neelix becomes his best friend. Both episodes should have had a profound impact on the relationship between the two, and it would've been worth being explored beyond that. But after either of those episodes, it's completely forgotten again and their relationship is back to "normal" as if nothing ever happened. Any Tuvok+Neelix encounter in later episodes could have happened before those and there'd be no difference.

Take ENT season 4. In the beginning, Archer at least mentions that he resorted to torture earlier and doubted himself if he had gone too far. It wasn't exactly dealt with in a meaningful way, but at least it wasn't forgotten entirely. In a Voyager episode, Janeway tries to murder a prisoner who refuses to disclose information, and Chakotay saves his life against her will. That should have had consequences for the relationship between the two, and Janeway's inner struggle should have been explored further. But after the end of the episode, it's entirely forgotten. It's as if none of it ever happened.

B'Elanna is another case. There's the episode that gives her severe depression (or something similar). She's so troubled that she more or less seeks death. After the episode, she's just the same as she was before again, and there's no episode afterwards that wouldn't have been the same before. It just never happened. Same with her afterlife experience, no impact whatsoever. As usual, an issue appears

There were a few things that separate "eras" within VOY, as Seska, the Kazon, the (lame) departure of Kes, the arrival of Seven, the encounter with the Borg. I'm not saying there was no serialisation at all. But for the most part, you could randomly reshuffle episodes and it would make virtually no difference. I'm also not saying previous Trek wasn't guilty of it too, but I think it's not been as extreme as in VOY since the days of TOS.

Of all Trek series, I think DS9 did it best by far. It had a great mix of episodic and serialised nature, and imo the best character development by a mile.
 
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1. VOY (What is wrong with Voyager's first season. At least they tried to have animosity between the crews)
2. ENT (I've grown to appreciate this first season a lot more over the years)
3. Star Trek (The Original)
4. DS9 (There were some stinkers, but when you end on Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets back to back, that's cause to hope the series was already turning things around)
5. DSC (The season Finale left a really bad taste in my mouth)
6. TNG (My favorite series but it was a really bad first season. There were a few good episodes there however.)
 
What is wrong with Voyager's first season. At least they tried to have animosity between the crews
I agree. In the case of VOY, I think the first season is no better or worse than the others.
 
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I meant much more than just those repairing the ship/replacing the shuttles issues. I find it most disappointing in terms of character development. There are drastic character events that happen in an episode but are completely forgotten after that episode ends.

Like the Tuvix episode, or the other one where Tuvok loses his memory and Neelix becomes his best friend. Both episodes should have had a profound impact on the relationship between the two, and it would've been worth being explored beyond that. But after either of those episodes, it's completely forgotten again and their relationship is back to "normal" as if nothing ever happened. Any Tuvok+Neelix encounter in later episodes could have happened before those and there'd be no difference.

Take ENT season 4. In the beginning, Archer at least mentions that he resorted to torture earlier and doubted himself if he had gone too far. It wasn't exactly dealt with in a meaningful way, but at least it wasn't forgotten entirely. In a Voyager episode, Janeway tries to murder a prisoner who refuses to disclose information, and Chakotay saves his life against her will. That should have had consequences for the relationship between the two, and Janeway's inner struggle should have been explored further. But after the end of the episode, it's entirely forgotten. It's as if none of it ever happened.

B'Elanna is another case. There's the episode that gives her severe depression (or something similar). She's so troubled that she more or less seeks death. After the episode, she's just the same as she was before again, and there's no episode afterwards that wouldn't have been the same before. It just never happened. Same with her afterlife experience, no impact whatsoever. As usual, an issue appears

There were a few things that separate "eras" within VOY, as Seska, the Kazon, the (lame) departure of Kes, the arrival of Seven, the encounter with the Borg. I'm not saying there was no serialisation at all. But for the most part, you could randomly reshuffle episodes and it would make virtually no difference. I'm also not saying previous Trek wasn't guilty of it too, but I think it's not been as extreme as in VOY since the days of TOS.

Of all Trek series, I think DS9 did it best by far. It had a great mix of episodic and serialised nature, and imo the best character development by a mile.

Everything you just said is wrong.
 
TOS
TNG
ENT
DS9
VOY
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
DSC

Guess I'm just an old-school Trekkie. :eek:

So are you honestly going to say Discovery season 1 had episode that were worse then Angel One, Justice or Code of Honor (which may be the most racist Star Trek episode ever)?


Just because they don't show whole episodes of the crew repairing the ship, or hunting for food, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It means who the hell wants to watch that?

:shrug:

I think we can reasonably extrapolate these things take place when we're not looking.

It felt like with Voyager, that actions almost never consequences, the ship would be in bad straights in one episode and completely fine next week. Voyager had a never ending supply of shuttles. It never felt like there was any of sense they were in a dangerous new part of the galaxy, where survival would be harder due to being cut off from the rest of Federation, Voyager seemed too have all the creature comforts of the Enterprise D, but that doesn't make senses considering they were cut off from the Federation. Voyager should have been a rougher, tougher series, where instead of everything being handed to them, Voyager has work hard to survive in the Delta Quadrant.

Traditionally, serialized shows have always had lower ratings than episodic/procedural shows. I think this is even the case today. Reality TV, sitcoms, and procedural dramas like NCIS take up most of the top 10 most popular shows.

What about Game of Thrones or the Walking Dead? Those are serialized and are popular. What about Stranger Things?

I think there is a reason we see more serialization now then in the past and a streaming service wants make you want to watch the next episode through a continuing plot line. Serialized stories are the bread and butter for a streaming service.
 
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1. TOS

2. DSC




3. VOY
4. TNG



5. DS9






6. ENT

This is not, BTW, how I'd rank the series against each other. Just first seasons.
 
TOS: Really, no explanation needed for this one. Maybe a few clunky eps. here or there, but none that were truly awful

DSC: Started out horribly, but gradually got better and better as it progressed. Yeah, sure, plotholes and such, still very entertaining. Didn't seem to struggle in finding its legs, whereas the other post-TOS shows took at least 10+ eps. to get into a groove.

DS9: Pretty uneven, despite it being my favorite series of the lot, but it gets points for Emissary and Duet especially.

VOY: I had hope for this series once. There's so many dynamics that could have been explored here, so Voyager for me is more of a missed opportunity. There were a handful of good episodes early on which they could've used a serialization points, but never did.

TNG: I consider the first season of TNG unwatchable. There are so many bad episodes in there, it's amazing that the show wasn't cancelled after one season.

ENT: I desperately wanted to like this series and I tried, so hard, but it was just so boring and the acting was just too stiff. There were imo only two "really good" episodes out of 26. I know that it got stronger in the later seasons and I have actually watched and liked a lot of season 3/4, but at the time of airing, it had lost me after season 1.
 
So are you honestly going to say Discovery season 1 had episode that were worse then Angel One, Justice or Code of Honor (which may be the most racist Star Trek episode ever)?

Worse? Probably not. More episodes that were far more fun and entertaining? Without a doubt.

Discovery was simply fifteen episodes of pandering to people that can't let go of names and dates of a fictional reality.
 
What I really don't get is the dislike for DS9's first season. It's certainly not as good as some of the later ones, but it has many strong episodes and few stinkers, it still has the best pilot, and it has great character stuff right from the start. Sisko, Dax, Kira, Garak, Odo, Quark, all enjoyable (and mostly well-defined) characters from the very beginning. There's great chemistry between Odo and Quark, even better than in later seasons.
 
I was trying to hold off in this until I watch DS9 and DSC, but who knows when I'll get that accomplished? Probably not until this thread drops off into a wormhole somewhere, so omitting both of those:

ranked by first season only (and that's actually all I have seen of ENT):
TOS
VOY
(very close between those two)

TNG
ENT
 
I was trying to hold off in this until I watch DS9 and DSC, but who knows when I'll get that accomplished? Probably not until this thread drops off into a wormhole somewhere, so omitting both of those:

ranked by first season only (and that's actually all I have seen of ENT):
TOS
VOY
(very close between those two)

TNG
ENT

If you're in the US, you can watch both the entire first seasons of DSC and DS9 for six bucks (one month subscription) on CBS All-Access.
 
If you're in the US, you can watch both the entire first seasons of DSC and DS9 for six bucks (one month subscription) on CBS All-Access.
Yep, thanks Bill. I've actually got the CBS app, so accessibility isn't even the issue (sadly and pathetically, ha ha). It's more of a time-thing since I'm still trying to work my way through TNG in its entirety before I hit up the newer series.
 
What I really don't get is the dislike for DS9's first season. It's certainly not as good as some of the later ones, but it has many strong episodes and few stinkers, it still has the best pilot, and it has great character stuff right from the start. Sisko, Dax, Kira, Garak, Odo, Quark, all enjoyable (and mostly well-defined) characters from the very beginning. There's great chemistry between Odo and Quark, even better than in later seasons.

DS9 is my second favorite series of the franchise, but it's first season is an absolute shitfest. The pilot was awesome (best pilot of the franchise), then I fall asleep and wake up in the last third of season 2.

Duet was over rated too.

There, I said it.
 
1. TOS - breakthrough and stonkingly avant garde in its era, with so many classic episodes
2. DSC - genuine moments that made me smile wide-eyed and remark "oh my" - bold, dark, different, but awesome
3. DS9 - a cracking pilot and finale and some good moral storytelling (Duet, Dax)
4. VGR - a few good-uns, but Voyager didn't find its feet until much later
5. ENT - some good eps (Dear Doctor) and a great cliffhanger (Shockwave) - but dragged in places
6. TNG - no beard, way too many poorly thought out episodes and dubious acting from many
 
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