rank question

[Timo]

Hard to tell - but Spacedock itself was in existence just after TOS, and thus probably already during TOS, and the much humbler K-7 style station in TOS "The Ultimate Computer" was administered by a Commodore...

We didn't see the giant starbases up close in TNG, or then we saw them up too close. In "11001001", the first appearance of the starbase type that resembled Earth's Spacedock, we concentrated on a Commander Quinteros who was in charge of upgrading a single starship. We never got the impression that he would have been the topmost officer in the starbase, but we never met the big boss, either.

We never found out who commanded SB 375, either. Ross was commanding a Fleet and perhaps a Sector from there, but the actual "station manager" might have been somebody else altogether.

But SB 173 in "Measure of a Man" was a SB 375 lookalike, and the big boss there was a Vice Admiral...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Anwar]

In the AGT future, Riker was a full Admiral and commander of a Starbase. He also had his won personal flagship so maybe he was really a Sector Commander that just used the Starbase as his HQ for his ships than just a single station commander.

 

[Red Ranger]

I'm considering bringing up TOS's fleet captain, rank... nah, better not.

Actually there is very little evidence that there is a rank called "Fleet Captain" with distinctive striping, since we never saw the uniform of such an officer.

About all we have is Kirk saying (about Pike) "We met when he was promoted to fleet captain", but that could mean anything. Perhaps they met when Pike went from Commander to Captain, and thus 'fleet captain' is just a fancy way of saying Captain.

I strongly believe fleet captain is a posting/assignment, not a rank. I offer this excerpt from the Wikipedia entry: "Fleet Captain is a rare military title that may be bestowed upon senior naval captains for a variety of reasons, the most common of which is to temporarily take command of more than one vessel. The rank can, therefore, be interpreted as a close equivalent to Commodore or to the 19th century rank of Flag Officer. The main distinction of a Fleet Captain is that normally the title is strictly temporary for the duration of a single mission. (emphasis mine)" If Starfleet follows this convention that it's a temporary assignment, that may be the reason we only know of two fleet captains from TOS: Pike and Garth. Probably Starfleet protocol calls for them to still be addressed by that title as it was the last one they held. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_captain -- RR

 

[Praetor]

But wasn't there a distinct pin for Fleet Captain in the movie pin scheme? (And perhaps also three solid stripes could mean Fleet Captain in the TOS scheme.)

 

[Drake]

Unfortunately, there was no official on screen appearance of any insignia for a fleet captain as best I can remember, but several unofficial versions have cropped up from time to time. The three solid stripes for a TOS fleet captain seem logical. One WOK era unofficial pin has a pair of additional arrow heads sprouting from the sides of the normal captain's pin. That seems to be the most commonly accepted version. The insignia worn by Sloan in DS9 when he was passing himself off as a "deputy director" has the normal four pips for a captain with a bar underneath and some think that might be the insignia appropriate for a fleet captain. Officially, the rank was only mentioned in two TOS episodes and hasn't been referred to since, leading many to assume it hasn't been awarded since the time of Pike and Garth. I have it listed as a reintroduced rank or appointment sometime after the Dominion War, but that's purely in my own little RPG subuniverse. I tend to think it probably doesn't really exist anymore in canon Trek, otherwise certain very senior and accomplished captains would have probably been awarded the distinction, Picard for example.

 

[Praetor]

Ah, you're right - it was Commodore that had an official pin in the movie scheme.

So fleet captain is just an accepted term for Starfleet captain...

 

[Timo]

In case of Garth, it did appear to be exactly that: our heroes twice reminded Garth that he was the same as Kirk, a "starship fleet captain". That is, a guy of Captain rank and position who serves in the exalted starship fleet, not in the less glamorous destroyer fleet or (shudder) merchant marine.

The case of Pike is more convoluted... But there, too, it could be argued that the purpose of the dialogue was to establish that Pike was the same as Kirk in every respect (eerie, even scary...) save for now being a complete cripple.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Loqutus]

True. Comodore is always such a little used rank Anymore anyway. No one seems to kno0w what it means

 

[Anwar]

It's basically just the first Admiral rank, nowadays called "Rear Admiral Lower Half". Either the commander of a base/station or the commander of a squadron of ships (not really a battle group or a fleet, but a squadron of vessels with one as the command ship) on the move somewhere.

 

[Loqutus]

I didn't say I didn't know what it means. I retired from the U.S. Navy. rofl

 

[Anwar]

Oh, sorry dude.

 

[Stroudarian]

I agree with C.E. Evans. The fact that they started Sisko out as a Commander and then later promoted him to Captain, helps contribute to the overall superior character development of the show. I like TNG the best, and I am also a big Voyager fan, however DS9, hands down, had the very best character develpment.

 

[kkt]

There's always Rear Admiral, Lower Half...which is basically the same thing as Commodore..

I think only the U.S. Navy is silly enough to call a rank Rear Admiral, Lower Half.

 

[kkt]

They actually had Fleet Admirals in TNG, didn't they? The Admiral who told Picard to go to Romulus and find Spock was a Fleet Admiral, and Nechayev was promoted to Fleet Admiral after a few appearances.

And McCoy once asked Kirk if they were expecting a fleet admiral for dinner. But he might have been using a colloquialism.

 

[TheSeeker]

The last post in this thread prior to its resurrection was over 8 years ago. As a rule we ask members not to resurrect threads which have been inactive for more than a year so I am closing this one down.