rank question

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Hawkeye_90, Apr 18, 2009.

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  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hard to tell - but Spacedock itself was in existence just after TOS, and thus probably already during TOS, and the much humbler K-7 style station in TOS "The Ultimate Computer" was administered by a Commodore...

    We didn't see the giant starbases up close in TNG, or then we saw them up too close. In "11001001", the first appearance of the starbase type that resembled Earth's Spacedock, we concentrated on a Commander Quinteros who was in charge of upgrading a single starship. We never got the impression that he would have been the topmost officer in the starbase, but we never met the big boss, either.

    We never found out who commanded SB 375, either. Ross was commanding a Fleet and perhaps a Sector from there, but the actual "station manager" might have been somebody else altogether.

    But SB 173 in "Measure of a Man" was a SB 375 lookalike, and the big boss there was a Vice Admiral...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In the AGT future, Riker was a full Admiral and commander of a Starbase. He also had his won personal flagship so maybe he was really a Sector Commander that just used the Starbase as his HQ for his ships than just a single station commander.
     
  3. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral In Memoriam

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    I strongly believe fleet captain is a posting/assignment, not a rank. I offer this excerpt from the Wikipedia entry: "Fleet Captain is a rare military title that may be bestowed upon senior naval captains for a variety of reasons, the most common of which is to temporarily take command of more than one vessel. The rank can, therefore, be interpreted as a close equivalent to Commodore or to the 19th century rank of Flag Officer. The main distinction of a Fleet Captain is that normally the title is strictly temporary for the duration of a single mission. (emphasis mine)" If Starfleet follows this convention that it's a temporary assignment, that may be the reason we only know of two fleet captains from TOS: Pike and Garth. Probably Starfleet protocol calls for them to still be addressed by that title as it was the last one they held. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet_captain -- RR
     
  4. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But wasn't there a distinct pin for Fleet Captain in the movie pin scheme? (And perhaps also three solid stripes could mean Fleet Captain in the TOS scheme.)
     
  5. Drake

    Drake Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Unfortunately, there was no official on screen appearance of any insignia for a fleet captain as best I can remember, but several unofficial versions have cropped up from time to time. The three solid stripes for a TOS fleet captain seem logical. One WOK era unofficial pin has a pair of additional arrow heads sprouting from the sides of the normal captain's pin. That seems to be the most commonly accepted version. The insignia worn by Sloan in DS9 when he was passing himself off as a "deputy director" has the normal four pips for a captain with a bar underneath and some think that might be the insignia appropriate for a fleet captain. Officially, the rank was only mentioned in two TOS episodes and hasn't been referred to since, leading many to assume it hasn't been awarded since the time of Pike and Garth. I have it listed as a reintroduced rank or appointment sometime after the Dominion War, but that's purely in my own little RPG subuniverse. I tend to think it probably doesn't really exist anymore in canon Trek, otherwise certain very senior and accomplished captains would have probably been awarded the distinction, Picard for example.
     
  6. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, you're right - it was Commodore that had an official pin in the movie scheme.

    So fleet captain is just an accepted term for Starfleet captain... :shifty:
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In case of Garth, it did appear to be exactly that: our heroes twice reminded Garth that he was the same as Kirk, a "starship fleet captain". That is, a guy of Captain rank and position who serves in the exalted starship fleet, not in the less glamorous destroyer fleet or (shudder) merchant marine.

    The case of Pike is more convoluted... But there, too, it could be argued that the purpose of the dialogue was to establish that Pike was the same as Kirk in every respect (eerie, even scary...) save for now being a complete cripple.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. Loqutus

    Loqutus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    True. Comodore is always such a little used rank Anymore anyway. No one seems to kno0w what it means
     
  9. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's basically just the first Admiral rank, nowadays called "Rear Admiral Lower Half". Either the commander of a base/station or the commander of a squadron of ships (not really a battle group or a fleet, but a squadron of vessels with one as the command ship) on the move somewhere.
     
  10. Loqutus

    Loqutus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I didn't say I didn't know what it means. I retired from the U.S. Navy. rofl
     
  11. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, sorry dude.
     
  12. Stroudarian

    Stroudarian Lieutenant Commander Premium Member

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    I agree with C.E. Evans. The fact that they started Sisko out as a Commander and then later promoted him to Captain, helps contribute to the overall superior character development of the show. I like TNG the best, and I am also a big Voyager fan, however DS9, hands down, had the very best character develpment.
     
    Worf'sParmach and C.E. Evans like this.
  13. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think only the U.S. Navy is silly enough to call a rank Rear Admiral, Lower Half.
     
  14. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And McCoy once asked Kirk if they were expecting a fleet admiral for dinner. But he might have been using a colloquialism.
     
  15. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Your Savage Overlord Moderator

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    The last post in this thread prior to its resurrection was over 8 years ago. As a rule we ask members not to resurrect threads which have been inactive for more than a year so I am closing this one down.
     
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