Rank problems

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Gabriel, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    That is not as canon as the galaxy 1,000 people, I always thought it was 750. Also there is no rule saying a LCDR can’t take command of 900 people. And also I did not mean command of the ship but lead of the mission. We have seen this before during TNG. Now while that was an admiral who lead the mission that’s just because Picard was a 4 pip captain. I just rewatched the part where Sisko on the bridge and by the dialogue he is leading the mission since he gave the ships captain the order to engage the tractor beam pretty sternly and he was he one ordering the scientist to turn around the shuttle Also I never said command I said lead of the mission. And by the way a captains orders can be over ruled by a higher ranking officer is some situation. This happens in the Galileo 7 where a government official orders Kirk to abandon search of his crew. Or in Pegasus when rear admiral Pressman tried to take o command of the enterprise. Now while pressman was dirty and it didn’t work, if it was done by another admiral, that admiral would be able to take command.
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Cornwell did it on DSC once. She invoked some kind of directive and took command over Saru.
     
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  3. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Forgot about that one because I would have use that too
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Also Spock willingly handed over the Enterprise to Admiral Kirk in TWOK. "If we are to go on actual duty, it is clear that the senior officer on board must assume command."
     
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  5. longhorn355

    longhorn355 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Star Trek canon on this issue seems pretty cut and dry. For instance, Commodore Decker took command of the Enterprise at his discretion in The Doomsday Machine and Spock even quotes Starfleet Order 104 as the legitimate basis for doing so. Commodore Stocker also took command of the Enterprise in The Deadly Years.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure Stocker had any legal basis for taking command. He was not a line officer, and had no experience on board a starship. He would be no more qualified to take command than Dr. McCoy.
     
  7. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Unfortunately. But he was still a flag officer
     
  8. longhorn355

    longhorn355 Ensign Red Shirt

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    From the episode:
    STOCKER: Well, since the senior officers are incapable and I am of flag rank, I am forced by regulations to assume command.
    SPOCK: Sir, you have never commanded a starship.
    STOCKER: What would you have, a junior officer with far less experience than I have?


    Kirk later states that Stocker has never had a field command and calls him a greenhorn.

    It appears from regulations that he has the authority to take command. The others never question the legality of it. They only question his experience level.

    Also, there’s nothing explicit to indicate that Stocker is not a line officer. He is wearing red so he could be from an engineering or security field and has only served on starbases or ground installations and has no starship experience. Another possibility is that he is a JAG officer (red having been worn by the prosecutor in Court Martial) and is therefore a staff officer but still authorized to command since he is of flag rank.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  9. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Thanks for the explanation.
     
  10. Kirby

    Kirby Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    49 posts and nothing about O'Brien's yo-yo'ing ranks.
    At least they finally settled in on something in DS9... And then Bashir made the Academy comment... :shrug:
     
  11. longhorn355

    longhorn355 Ensign Red Shirt

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    In universe, I don’t think O’Brien going from a lieutenant to a senior chief petty officer has ever been explained but in my head canon, perhaps Picard gave him the acting rank of lieutenant to fill certain billets aboard the Enterprise. There is precedent in that Picard made Wesley an acting ensign. Once those billets were filled by others, O’Brien reverted back to his permanent rank of senior chief.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
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  12. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    IMO, the simplest explanation is that he should have been wearing one to two silver or black pins with a silver commbadge (as Acting Ensigns do) rather than the gold ones and Riker was confused. Especially as AGT confirms that he was "Chief O'Brien" with one pin at launch.
     
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  13. trekshark

    trekshark Commander Red Shirt

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    Past Data in All Good Things always bugged me the most. They were 7 years in at that point so they should have been more careful
     
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  14. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Though that still wouldn't explain how Rozhenko identified two-pip O'Brien as a CPO.
     
  15. longhorn355

    longhorn355 Ensign Red Shirt

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    I just watched Family again. You’re right. There goes my theory.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
  16. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Well, many have tried.
     
  17. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Well I guess in the end most of us can agree that O’Brien was enlisted at least at the end.
     
  18. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But if in-universe he was wearing silver pips (rather than officer's gold, wardrobe made a "mistake") then it's possible.
     
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  19. Gabriel

    Gabriel Captain Captain

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    Yeah if only. But chiefs like chief gladstone and Gillespie had the hollow pip signifying chief petty officer




    (Sorry second pic isn’t a good one but he definitely had only one hollow pip and chief O’Brien in fact still had his 2 solid pips in this episode)
    Ok pics may not be working so look up chief petty officer Gladstone and you will get a picture of a woman in in a blue tng season 1-2 uniform with only one hollow pip
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
  20. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    But there's no evidence of silver pips for enlisted grades. If we're going to say he's wearing something that's he's not, we might as well say he was wearing the DS9 device all along.