This rank which is higher than Captain but lower than Admiral appears to have been done away with after TOS.
Is this accurate?
Is this accurate?
Rank of Commodore?
- Thread starter GalaxyClass1701
- Start date
Pretty much. At least the last chronological reference to the rank was in "Star Trek: The Motion Picture". Commodores were neither seen nor mentioned in either of the 24th century shows. Of course, it was never explicitly mentioned that the rank had been abolished. Commodores just ceased to appear. Admiral Forrest was a Commodore in the flashback scenes of Enterprise's "First Flight", but that was pre-TOS (chronologically speaking).
The real-world reason was that the U.S. Navy had done away with it in the real world.
A Commodore is the same as a one-star Admiral. I can't think of a single instance when a one-star Starfleet Admiral appeared.
We've seen Fleet Admirals (5 stars, like Nechayev), Admirals (4 stars, like Whatley), Vice Admirals (3 stars, Ross), and an extraordinarily few Rear Admirals (2 stars, like Pressman), but we've never seen a 1 star Admiral.
So, since we never saw the rank that was supposed to replace it, maybe the rank of Commodore did survive into the 24th century.
^ Wasn't Gregory Quinn a 1 star Admiral? Memory Alpha seems to suggest his uniform as such.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gregory_Quinn
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Gregory_Quinn
A Commodore is the same as a one-star Admiral. I can't think of a single instance when a one-star Starfleet Admiral appeared.
We've seen Fleet Admirals (5 stars, like Nechayev), Admirals (4 stars, like Whatley), Vice Admirals (3 stars, Ross), and an extraordinarily few Rear Admirals (2 stars, like Pressman), but we've never seen a 1 star Admiral.
So, since we never saw the rank that was supposed to replace it, maybe the rank of Commodore did survive into the 24th century.
What was Janeway in NEM?
Apparently a vice-admiral.
It wasn't directly stated in dialogue what her rank was, so we have nothing to go on besides her rank insignia. Since she wore three pips in a box, that makes her a Vice Admiral.
It was most likely a costume error, as Trek has had MORE than its fair share of those, and she was intended to be a one-star Rear Admiral. However, since they never called her a "Rear Admiral" in dialogue, we have to assume that she was a three-star Vice Admiral.
I suppose that's possible. That was before they put anything remotely resembling order on uniforms or rank insignia for any Admiral, so it's difficult to tell.
That's why I said "apparently."
Where was it said she was supposed to be a one-star rear admiral?
I'm just assuming that she was intended to be a one-star admiral because it seems like a pretty rapid rise through the ranks to go from a Captain to Vice Admiral in that short a time.
I could be wrong. They very well may have intended her to be a Vice Admiral the whole time - I don't know.
I don't think it would be that rapid seeing what she accomplished getting Voyager home.
^ I suppose that makes sense. She did almost wipe out the Borg.
In canon, at least.
In canon, at least.
I think they intended her to be a vice admiral or at least an admiral of some considerable authority. It's possible that the billet she landed may have required a three-pip admiral. There are probably some special positions in Starfleet where a person may be promoted two or more grades in rank if necessary. I think the thing is probably trying to determine what billet Janeway had to warrant such a promotion--perhaps something like Chief of Starfleet Diplomatic Operations?
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^ Ah, so you're saying that she was promoted into a specific position and that her rank came with that position.
That makes sense. We've seen it happen before. Kirk was promoted to Chief of Starfleet Operations not too long after he was a Captain, after all.
That makes sense. We've seen it happen before. Kirk was promoted to Chief of Starfleet Operations not too long after he was a Captain, after all.
Honestly, I think Janeway being a Vice Admiral is simply a result of props or costuming (whoever looks after the pips) having easier access to the three boxed pips and therefore they used that. After all, most Admirals we see in modern-day Trek are Vice Admirals.
Anyway, in real life the US Navy got rid of the Commodore rank and replaced it with Rear Admiral, Lower Half. Seriously, that's the actual name of the rank. Since there are no referances to any Commodores in Starfleet after TMP, it stands to reason Starfleet did the same in the 2270s.
Anyway, in real life the US Navy got rid of the Commodore rank and replaced it with Rear Admiral, Lower Half. Seriously, that's the actual name of the rank. Since there are no referances to any Commodores in Starfleet after TMP, it stands to reason Starfleet did the same in the 2270s.
Yeah, Kirk is a good example. I tend to think most promotions beyond the rank of captain in Starfleet are by special appointment--rather than something that naturally happens if you stay in the service long enough--and may not always require someone to start off as a one-pip admiral and work their way up. Depending on the size or importance of the posting, you could skip a few grades, IMO.Admiral Shran said:
Personally, I like to call a one-pip admiral a "branch admiral" as a special flag rank for officers from the sciences, medical, engineering, and operations divisions. Never much cared for the upper half/lower half designations for rear admirals myself...
The real-world use of Commodore as either a rank or a title has a long and intricate history. And Rear Admiral (Lower Half) has been in use in the U.S. Navy since 1899.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(United_States)
Bad enough to be a rear admiral, but the lower half of one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(United_States)
Bad enough to be a rear admiral, but the lower half of one?
She might have been the direct successor of Admiral Haden, who seemed to boss Picard around in all matters Romulan. Starfleet might well believe in three-pipped theater commanders specific to an astrographical region or an adversary: one for the Klingons (Shanthi), one for the Romulans (Haden/Janeway), one for the Cardassians (Rollmann/Ross), and so forth. This theater commander might also command a starbase significant for the region in question (Shanthi had SB 234, Rollman had 401, Ross had 375).
This position might even be the same as the "CinC" from ST6 (in this case, "Admiral Bill" would be CinC of the Klingon theater of operations, whilst Janeway would be CINCROM or some such). These "Commanders-in-Chief, insert-theater-name" were a staple of the US Navy till 2002, at which point it was decided that only the big boss of the entire armed forces, i.e. President of the US, would hold the title of CinC. None of the Trek shows would be subject to that consideration, though, as they either finished filming before the change or did not discuss CinCs. (Not that they ever should be, really - why should Starfleet discontinue CinC or Commodore just because some organization of barbaric antiquity once did?)
Timo Saloniemi
This is why I never cared for the that fact that Trek never showed how Starfleet is organized beyond the level of the ship - it's too confusing to figure out.
If they had made an attempt to show how the Admiralty was organized, it would be much more understandable.
If they had made an attempt to show how the Admiralty was organized, it would be much more understandable.
