Rank - Is Starfleet a Meritocracy? (Spoilers)

[Vicki]

Early graduation and commissioning during a crisis is not unheard. During WWI, the United States Military Academy at West Point graduated and commissioned almost all the cadets early, some of them YEARS early. It's a four year college and by November 1918, the only cadets still at West Point were the brand new plebes who had been there just a couple of months.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I would also like to point out that Kirk's biggest rank jump was from suspended cadet to FIRST OFFICER Starfleet Command just promoted him from that to Captain.

 

[Vicki]

I would also like to point out that Kirk's biggest rank jump was from suspended cadet to FIRST OFFICER Starfleet Command just promoted him from that to Captain.

Yeah. And Pike didn't grab Kirk on the way out of the hearing and make him first officer. And Star Fleet didn't stop Kirk on the academy steps and hand him the keys to the Enterprise. It happened in a chain of events that started with Pike making best use of the assets he had at hand.

This is from the movie review I wrote somewhere else ...

If you guys can stand one more take on Kirk being promoted by Star Fleet from cadet to captain overnight ... I think that's a misleading way to look at it.

The Enterprise warped out with Captain Pike, First Officer Spock, and Kirk on academic suspension. The next time Star Fleet sees any of them, Kirk is ~already~ captain of the Enterprise (who just saved every living thing on Earth), Spock is his science officer, and Pike is injured and out of the command loop.

Pike promoted Kirk to first officer under battlefield conditions, and Spock effectively promoted Kirk to captain. Star Fleet didn't put Kirk there, they left him there, which is not quite the same thing.

The chain of events started with Pike promoting Kirk and I can see that. He told young Kirk (bloody from losing a bar fight he didn't start) that his father didn't believe in no-win situations and he wanted Kirk to join because he thought Star Fleet needed those qualities. I can also see Pike pushing Star Fleet hard to keep Kirk on the Enterprise.

After I wrote my review and had been to see the movie several more times, other things that occured to me ...

Spoke calls himself ~Acting~ Captain Spock. Kirk calls himself Captain Kirk. It's a nicely subtle charactor touch.

The hearing is essentially about no-win scenarios and how you respond to them. And we know how Pike and Kirk feel about that.

Here's the actual dialogue in the bar.
Pike: Your father didn't believe in no-win scenarios.
Kirk: He sure learned his lesson.
Pike: Depends on how you define winning. You're here, aren't you?"

I think Kirk sat there in the bar staring at the starship salt shaker, and realized he agreed with Pike.

Vicki

 

[Tarek71]

Well they wanted to go from Kirks birth to his being Captain of the Enterprise in one movie. Thats not easy. The quick jumps forward in his lifestop in 2258 when hes a cadet and the rest of movie happens then. But they could have shown how amazing he was as a cadet, and then make one more jump of a few years, when Lt. Cmdr or Cmdr Kirk is first officer of the Enterprise or hes second officer and Spock is first officer, and then get to the rest of the action.

Just one more jump would have gone a long way to minimizing all of this. But look, its alot to cover in relatively short time and thats just not what they did for whatever combination of reasons.

They give you medals for outstanding bravery and service, but they dont make you an Admiral or a General or a Colonel or Captain for it. Not when youre a cadet or a very junior officer. Theres just no really good explanation for it.

Thats not meritocracy. One single brilliantly handled mission doesnt make you ready to be a General or a Captain no matter how brilliant you are. They give you a medal, a promotion perhaps, and you get put on the fast track, but not nearly that fast.

And no I dont buy that several ships being lost means that even the flagship now has to have a bridge crew of teenagers to mid-twentysomethings. Thats just absurd. Lots of enlisted are that age, but the officers? How tiny is Starfleet? One emergency deployment where they throw in a crew of the best thats available is somewhat believable, but its back to school for most of them when they return.

 

[Jeri]

Doesn't anybody understand what it means to save the planet anymore?

 

[Kaziarl]

You know... I don't really remember them saying it was the next day when Kirk relieved Pike, it could have easily been a couple years later.

 

[clint g]

In which case it would be nice for the film makers to point that out, since the way the scene was filmed it seemed like a few months later tops

 

[neozeks]

I would also like to point out that Kirk's biggest rank jump was from suspended cadet to FIRST OFFICER Starfleet Command just promoted him from that to Captain.

Yeah, but First Officer isn't a rank, it's a job description, a position in the hierarchy. You can be a ensign and a first officer if you're on a small enough ship. Enterprise is no small ship.

 

[Tarek71]

Doesn't anybody understand what it means to save the planet anymore?

Yeah, they give you a medal. Well done, kid. Amazing! What a future this young guy has!

Lots of young officers and enlisted have won the medal of honor and done absolutely incredible things, but they just dont make you a general or admiral, colonel, etc for it. High command positions arent given out as if they were medals. Lots of experience is needed. No one mission, no matter how big it is, or how well you did, jumps you from Cadet to a rank that high.

It wouldnt matter if in that moment you saved the whole planet. An inexperienced greenhorn like that might just as easily get everybody killed the next time. Remember, these people have no idea about Kirks future. They never even heard of V'Ger or the planet killer or Nomad or the Whale probe. All they know is a hot shot, troublemaking cadet did a good job on one single misson.

And is there any officer in the whole Fleet who wouldnt have thought of what Kirk thought of? Or even better ideas? Wouldnt any civilization that had transporter technology think of trying to beam aboard the enemy ship and sabotage it? That tactic should be in the Starfleet field manual. Beam warheads onto it and blow it to bits? If anything, the plan they ended up going with was alot more difficult and round-about than just beaming a bunch of nukes unto the ship and letting them blow the Nerada to pieces.

 

[Jeri]

Tarek71, "absolutely incredible things" are not saving planet Earth. That has never been done.

Kirk did that while captain of the fleet flag ship. He's captain material.

There was no one else in the fleet who came up with what Kirk did. They were all off in the Laurentian system. And Spock was trying to join them.

 

[Hambone]

In most navies, "Captain" is the common address to commanders of a naval ship, regardless of his actual rank. It's therefore possible for Kirk to be in command while still technically a Lieutenant or even a cadet.

My military experience was in the U.S. Army. In my old unit, situated right below the Commander was the First Sergeant. His "title" was honorary; his actual rank was E-5 (Sergeant). Usually, but not always, the 1SG is an E-8 (Master Sergeant, First Sergeant, or Sergeant Major). Many of the junior NCO's actually outranked the 1SG, but were considered subordinate due to his title.

So there is precedence for this in real life.

 

[Star Wolf]

In most navies, "Captain" is the common address to commanders of a naval ship, regardless of his actual rank. It's therefore possible for Kirk to be in command while still technically a Lieutenant or even a cadet.

My military experience was in the U.S. Army. In my old unit, situated right below the Commander was the First Sergeant. His title was honorary; his actual rank was E-5 (Sergeant). Usually, but not always, the 1SG is an E-8 (Master Sergeant, First Sergeant, or Sergeant Major). Many of the junior NCO's actually outranked the 1SG, but were considered subordinate due to his title.

So there is precedence for this in real life.

What kind of unit were you in. The Top gets such respect because he through service is the top soldier in the company. While the 1st Sergeant sits at the side of the Captain he normally is an administrator. The XO or senior survivng platoon leader/sergeant takes over the fight because the Top more often then not is back in the BSA.

Thus an E5 in a 1st Sergeant role is not an example of putting a junior in high command it is the opposite. It is keeping the real leaders forward while the supply sergent fills the Top's admin role.