I've sometimes wondered if BSG "Commanders" might actually have been Commodores (Originally thought of it re: Commander Shore of the World Aquanaut Security Patrol (a specialist patrol/strike group of the World Navy) who outranked Captain Tempest, skipper of the eponymous Stingray.)
Rank in Starfleet
- Thread starter Nyotarules
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I've sometimes wondered if BSG "Commanders" might actually have been Commodores (Originally thought of it re: Commander Shore of the World Aquanaut Security Patrol (a specialist patrol/strike group of the World Navy) who outranked Captain Tempest, skipper of the eponymous Stingray.)
Lockheed AC-130 gunships.
Wow, really? That is... Mind-boggling.
^ To be fair, the rank of 'Commander' is often used rather casually in sci-fi. BSG is hardly the only system that does so.
In Star Wars, for example, it seems to be thrown around rather liberally - at least BSG, original or remake, has a clearly defined rank system. If SW's ranks have ever been laid out in detail, I'm not aware of it.
The original BSG has the rank of Commander as a flag rank. Meaning, a BSG-TOS "Commander" is what most of us would consider an "Admiral". nuBSG, of course, actually has the rank of Admiral, and so it bumps the rank of Commander down a peg.
See what I mean?
In Star Wars, for example, it seems to be thrown around rather liberally - at least BSG, original or remake, has a clearly defined rank system. If SW's ranks have ever been laid out in detail, I'm not aware of it.
The original BSG has the rank of Commander as a flag rank. Meaning, a BSG-TOS "Commander" is what most of us would consider an "Admiral". nuBSG, of course, actually has the rank of Admiral, and so it bumps the rank of Commander down a peg.
See what I mean?
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Though "ship" is standard terminology for aircraft formation flying, "two ship," "four ship" etc.
What Star Wars does with the rank of "General" squeezes my brain. That Leia was a General in TFA does make sense, she clearly was in a upper leadership position.
Lando being a General less so, although he was obviously in command of the small craft in ROTJ, something like mid level officer who was the "CAG" would have made more sense.
As to why Solo was a General, considering what he was doing, is just plain puzzling.
Commander Skywalker, after seeing the Clone Wars, seem to be traditional. A Jedi Knight or Master was typically given the rank of general in the Clone Army while a Padawan was given the rank of Commander in said army. Luke is basically Obi-wan Kenobi's Padawan, and also the guy that blew up the Death Star. So they have granted him the traditional rank of Commander and given him a squadron of fighters. In theory, if Luke remained in the Alliance and later Republic military after his defeat of Darth Vader and his becoming a Jedi Knight, that Luke would normally be promoted to General Skywalker.
In the old radio play however, Luke was recently promoted to Commander just before the start of the events of the film The Empire Strikes Back, due to his commanding officer and the overall commander of the fighter groups on Hoth being killing in an Imperial ambush of the convoy they were escorting. Luke was given command since he was the most senior ranking fighter pilot they had left at Hoth. Wedge remained his second in command, not taking over Rogue Group until Luke took off for his Jedi training following the Battle of Hoth.
In the old radio play however, Luke was recently promoted to Commander just before the start of the events of the film The Empire Strikes Back, due to his commanding officer and the overall commander of the fighter groups on Hoth being killing in an Imperial ambush of the convoy they were escorting. Luke was given command since he was the most senior ranking fighter pilot they had left at Hoth. Wedge remained his second in command, not taking over Rogue Group until Luke took off for his Jedi training following the Battle of Hoth.
Yeah. That's basically the Star Wars "classic legend" take on things, where people are leaders because they are born better than other people. Military leadership is assumed to just flow from that, rather than being a complex profession that requires years of experience.
And I give points for not mentioning General Jar Jar!
Well, that doesn't seem too out of line, with Luke being Rogue Leader in ESB.
Minus 15 billion points for mentioning General Jar Jar!
And then there's Republic Senator Jar Jar.
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The Rebel Alliance would have been a lot less formal about what sort of experience it awarded ranks for. Being the superhero who destroyed the Death Star with your eyes closed would get you on the fast track.
Grand Moffs outrank Regular Moffs. I think Adequate Moffs are somewhere in between.
^ And they settle all disputes by Moff Diving.
Slightly off-topic, but a couple days ago the US Navy just rescinded the plan to eliminate rating titles (Yeoman, Gunner's Mate, Boatswain's Mate, etc.) and the associated rating icon on the rank insignia. They do intend to continue with other parts of the plan to expand job overlap and cross-training, which is a good thing. Right now, only a Plumber's Mate is allowed to work on pipes, and only an Electrician's Mate can touch wires. By expanding job descriptions, it will allow perhaps, for example, a Hull Technician to do some light plumbing/electrical repairs.
In my Trek stories, enlisted personnel are required to be cross-trained to a basic level in another rating-job to be eligible for promotion to Petty Officer First Class.
In my Trek stories, enlisted personnel are required to be cross-trained to a basic level in another rating-job to be eligible for promotion to Petty Officer First Class.
I've always liked the above idea. Interestingly, according to a training department PO I was talking to recently, the Royal Navy Technical Branch actually does it almost the opposite way around. Able Seamen (officially OR-2 but ranks with ranks with Seaman by training) are expected to be proficient in all aspects of engineering before they can be promoted to Leading Hand/Seaman (officially OR-4 but non-NCO) as specialist team leaders. Familiarity with most non-nuc primary positions on the ship is also regarded as desirable, for instance while his initial 'rating' in US terms was CS, he is also qualified as an HM, and was previously trained as a ETV (Submarine QM/BM), LS, DC and likely HT, and currently works as a Trainer for HMs, with only the last (because it required a formal change of 'rating' being unusual in his experience.
I think at least one of the two above principles would likely be followed by Starfleet.
In the Air Force, there are skill levels 3, 5, 7, & 9. My AFSC was 1W0X1A weather forecaster. The "X" is replaced with the skill level. Right out of tech school, a person is a 3-level "apprentice". They must complete their training, both hands-on OJT (On the Job Training) and Career Development Course (CDC) self-study correspondence course books, to become a 5-level "journeyman". One may not be promoted to Senior Airman (SrA / E-4) if they don't have their 5-level (exceptions made for cross-trainees moving to a new job / career field). Upon promotion to Staff Sgt / E-5, they begin upgrade status to become a 7-level "craftsman" (another advanced tech school and/or another set of CDCs), which is required for promotion to Tech Sgt / E-6. When I sewed on Master Sgt / E-7, I was upgraded to a 9-level "master" and thus retired as a 1W091A. They changed the rules since I retired such that the 9-level is awarded to Senior Master Sgt (SMSgt / E-8) and not to MSgt. Yet another reason I'm glad I got out when I did.
Can you explain the difference between the levels a bit more? If I'm reading it correctly, then 3 & 5 seem to sit within the E1-3 training criteria in the USN/CG (or RN Able Seaman training) with 7 roughly corresponding to PO training and 9 to CPO. Would that be accurate?
Also, how do you think that Engineering Technician Grade 4 (held by Crewman Watkins, played by 23 yo Kenneth Washington) would fit into that? Personally, I assumed that it probably corresponding to the "Able Crewman" level (or journeyman in USAF system).
The skill-level is simply a way to track experience and skill set. Technically, a 3-level should not be scheduled to work alone but may after some On the Job Training (OJT) be signed off to perform some tasks without direct supervision. There's no huge difference between 5-level and 7-level save for time on the job and extra self-study courses (and maybe an advanced technical school).
Let's say you take your car to the shop. A 3-level mechanic can change the oil and filters, and perhaps do a basic tune-up. A 5-level can replace the alternator or starter, and a 7-level can do a head gasket repair, and a 9-level can do a complete teardown/rebuild. Okay, yes, that's a bit over-simplified, but you get the gist.
As to the ranks: 3-level = E1 to E3 / 5-level = E3 to E5 (required for E4) / 7-level = E5 to E7 (required for E6) / 9-level = E7 to E9 (required for E8). And no, I don't have a clue why the USAF picked 3/5/7/9 instead of 1/2/3/4 or A/B/C/D.
Let's say you take your car to the shop. A 3-level mechanic can change the oil and filters, and perhaps do a basic tune-up. A 5-level can replace the alternator or starter, and a 7-level can do a head gasket repair, and a 9-level can do a complete teardown/rebuild. Okay, yes, that's a bit over-simplified, but you get the gist.
As to the ranks: 3-level = E1 to E3 / 5-level = E3 to E5 (required for E4) / 7-level = E5 to E7 (required for E6) / 9-level = E7 to E9 (required for E8). And no, I don't have a clue why the USAF picked 3/5/7/9 instead of 1/2/3/4 or A/B/C/D.
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