Random Thought: Was Janeway Killed Because She was So Polarizing?

[Steve Roby]

Just checking the monthly media-related lists at Locus (for example, here's September):

In 2005, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 9 months.
In 2006, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 8 months.
In 2007, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 5 months.
In 2008, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 7 months.
In 2009, Star Trek books have made the list every month so far.

(Star Wars books made the list every month, every year. A few times, all five books were Star Wars books.)

 

[Dayton Ward]

So, we should kill somebody in EVERY book.

I'm on it.

 

[Christopher]

I used to think, many years ago, when the DS9-R was first starting, that the interconnected continuity was great. Now--I am really feeling like it was a mistake...not just as a matter of taste, but one that may be costing Pocket Books on the business side of things, too.

I all but stopped buying Trek books in the late '80s and early 90s because of the lack of continuity, and will stop again without hesitation if they get rid of it now, so it's obviously a double-edged sword thingee.

As I said above, the schedule for 2009/10 is showing a shift back toward standalone tales, but they're alongside tales that advance the overall novel continuity. And I think that's the optimal approach to take. There are always going to be different tastes within the fanbase, so it's best to have something for everyone. It can validly be argued that the novel line has gone maybe a bit too far in the direction of continuity, given the complaints we've been hearing lately about it getting too involved. I'd imagine that's part of the reason for the shift back toward standalones in next year's schedule. But hopefully the books won't go too far in the other direction again and drop continuity altogether. I wouldn't mind seeing a healthy mix of main-continuity books, standalones that might or might not fit in the main continuity (depending on individual preference), and books in distinctly separate continuities like the Abramsverse or Myriad Universes.

 

[Fer]

So, we should kill somebody in EVERY book.

I'm on it.

Thanks for the good laugh.
At least... I assume you're joking.

And thanks also to Steve Roby for the Locus list. I'm one of the ones who wasn't aware of it. Glad to see the books are getting on there more, since they've been so good!

 

[captcalhoun]

So, we should kill somebody in EVERY book.

I'm on it.

i thought that was Mack's job...

 

[Rosalind]

Just checking the monthly media-related lists at Locus (for example, here's September):

In 2005, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 9 months.
In 2006, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 8 months.
In 2007, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 5 months.
In 2008, Star Trek books made the Locus list in 7 months.
In 2009, Star Trek books have made the list every month so far.

(Star Wars books made the list every month, every year. A few times, all five books were Star Wars books.)

Thanks for posting this Steve, very interesting.

 

[Lynx]

It just occurred to me the other day...

...Was the character of Kathryn Janeway killed off in Trek Lit because, through her time as Voyager's captain where she made choices that some did not agree with, she was deemed to be too polarizing and controversial a figure to continue on within the broader stories and universe of Trek Lit as it has become?

IE, Admiral Janeway presented a problem in that she's perhaps the most harshly critisized of all of modern Trek chracters, and in this more unified universe we're now in, where more characters cross between series, having an individual who is an Admiral and our most familair face at SFCommand also be someone whom some folks vocally dislike... so by getting rid of her, such a polarization is removed in the hopes of encouring people to cross-read between series and to be able to better stomach characters and events they might otherwise not like?

...Was Janeway Killed Because a Vocal Minority Disliked Her Enough to Threaten the Broader Scope of Modern Trek Lit, as Well As Perhaps It's Bottom Line Financially?

Was Janeway Assassinated?

Yes, she was.

I guess that option 3 may be closest to the truth. They wouldn't have dared to kill off Picard or Sisko. But I also think that it was a stupid way to get attention.

Anyway, the Voyager relaunch died with Janeway. What we will have now is a bogus ship with a bogus crew, supported by those who
1) Weren't and aren't fans of the TV series Star Trek Voyager, but are more fans of certain Trek authors.
2) Hates Janeway and are happy to see her killed off
3) Those who read Trek books only because of the word "Star Trek" on the cover.
4) Those who are ardent fans of one or some of the surviving characters from the TV series Star Trek Voyager.

While many of the ardent fans of the TV series, most of all the J/C-ers and the die-hard Janeway fans will turn their backs on the dead project and read and write fanfiction instead.

 

[pookha]

locus this year lost its editor charles brown but it is still going to be published.

it is very much sometthing to read online if you cant find the actual print edition.


here is a little more then a year of the lists.
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue04_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue05_LocusBestsellers.html
after this there is a several month gap almost going to fall were there are no star trek books on the list.

http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue07_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue08_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue09_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue10_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue11_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2008/Issue12_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2009/Issue01_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2009/Issue02_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2009/Issue03_LocusBestsellers.html
http://www.locusmag.com/2009/Issue04_LocusBestsellers.html

 

[Scout101]

Anyway, the Voyager relaunch died with Janeway.

only if you made the mistake of quitting there. The past 2 books (FC and Unworthy) have been by far the best VOY offerings in several years, and certainly the best since Voyager got home.

What we will have now is a bogus ship

same ship

with a bogus crew,

different, in some respects, but how does that qualify as bogus? Is TNG now bogus because Data died? Or because Riker and Troi went to Titan? Does adding Tuvok make it less bogus somehow? What's the criteria here?

supported by those who
1) Weren't and aren't fans of the TV series Star Trek Voyager, but are more fans of certain Trek authors.

hugely false, and pretty much just trolling anyone that disagrees with you. Not a good way to make a strong point. In fact, I like the new direction of the series, and watched (and own) every episode of VOY. And it certainly isn't loyalty to an author, because as far as I know, I'd never heard of Kristen before her two VOY offerings.

2) Hates Janeway and are happy to see her killed off

Again, no. Enjoyed her character during the series, but just didn't think anything post-Endgame was doing her justice. She had nothing to do, and was being shoe-horned into books just because it seemed they had to get all the original characters in there somewhere. Seemed forced, wasn't interesting, and the drive of the series seemed to have moved on without her, once she finished her main objective: getting the ship and crew home. She's the "mother" character to the crew, but gotta leave the nest eventually...

3) Those who read Trek books only because of the word "Star Trek" on the cover.

Not really worth responding to, in the TrekLit section. Not everyone that disagrees with you is a mindless drone, however.

4) Those who are ardent fans of one or some of the surviving characters from the TV series Star Trek Voyager.

Off the mark, again. Like the series, like some characters better than others,but not all of us have picked sides with a character, or will defend them anywhere, etc. I do enjoy seeing the characters we've got with us in the new series, though.

While many of the ardent fans of the TV series, most of all the J/C-ers and the die-hard Janeway fans will turn their backs on the dead project and read and write fanfiction instead.

Go for it, no one is stopping you. I think you're vastly over-estimating the number of people that are going to quit and follow you, though. The books have sold well, and worst of all for your point, they're actually well written and interesting. If you had read them instead of "taking a stand" over the issue, you might understand this better. Either way, your decision won't break the back of the book series, so I know I'll continue to enjoy the new direction the books have taken for a while.

 

[Therin of Andor]

most of all the J/C-ers and the die-hard Janeway fans will turn their backs on the dead project and read and write fanfiction instead.

Hehehehehe. As several of them have told us on numerous occasions, they never read the novels in the first place, preferring to download free fanfic instead. And you gave up the books and episodes when Kes left the show!

 

[Fer]

Yes, she was.

I guess that option 3 may be closest to the truth. They wouldn't have dared to kill off Picard or Sisko. But I also think that it was a stupid way to get attention.

To a certain extent I'll agree it was done for the sake of killing of a major character. But I disagree with the reasoning behind it: It wasn't so much to draw attention to the books, as it was to establish that the books are now the future of the Trek Prime universe, and anything can happen.

I also disagree that they wouldn't kill off Picard or Sisko. DS9 has shown it can continue without Sisko quite well. Next Gen books could also continue without Picard... just off the top of my head, Riker could be given command of the Enterprise-E, and then the Titan series could continue under Captain Vale. I'm sure the writers could come up with lots of other ideas as well.

NO character, world, or ship is bulletproof anymore. That's what the death of Janeway was about.

Anyway, the Voyager relaunch died with Janeway. What we will have now is a bogus ship with a bogus crew,

This I totally don't get. It's the same ship and the same characters. How is that bogus? Just because some additional characters have been added?

supported by those who
1) Weren't and aren't fans of the TV series Star Trek Voyager, but are more fans of certain Trek authors.

I have to ditto Scout101 here, I watched every episode, and enjoyed them enough to buy them all on DVD. And I'd never heard of Kirsten Beyer before these books either.

2) Hates Janeway and are happy to see her killed off

I never hated Janeway. I NEVER expected her to be killed off, not for a second while it was even happening in the book. It wasn't until I read the last page and said to myself, "Woah. There was no undo. There was no last minute save. OMG!!!" I thought it was a very moving and poetic way for her to go out.

3) Those who read Trek books only because of the word "Star Trek" on the cover.

Ohh, I only wish. Every year after Shore Leave, when the announcements of the newest books are made, I honestly say to myself "Dammit! All the books sound good again!" See, I'm a very slow reader, I usually only get to read about two books a month. So I want to skip Trek books, so I can read other stuff. Unfortunately I enjoy the direction the books are going so much that I can't bring myself to pass on them.

It was easy in the 90's. They were all stand-alones with no ramifications. I picked up a few here and there that sounded good, but I was able to skip about 75% of the books they published a year, because they didn't seem like anything I couldn't get when the next episode of Voyager aired next Wednesday.

Just saying "Star Trek" on the cover will never be enough to get me to buy it. And despite that, I've bought all the books over the last two years, and it looks like I'll be buying them all again next year, too.

4) Those who are ardent fans of one or some of the surviving characters from the TV series Star Trek Voyager.

I don't see a problem with that.

While many of the ardent fans of the TV series, most of all the J/C-ers and the die-hard Janeway fans will turn their backs on the dead project and read and write fanfiction instead.

Well, I don't know if I count as a J/c-er, but I always felt Janeway and Chakotay should have gotten it together on the show, and I was thrilled that the first thing the books seemed to do when they got back to Earth was to address that.

I don't blame you for being upset that your favorite character was killed off, and I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it because of that. But please don't paint all of us who enjoy the books all with the same brush, because many of us are not Janeway haters. We're simply open to new directions.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I don't blame you for being upset that your favorite character was killed off, and I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it because of that.

Actually, Lynx's favourite character was Kes - but she was killed off canonically, and it made him stop watching the series!

 

[Steve Roby]

I don't blame you for being upset that your favorite character was killed off, and I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it because of that. But please don't paint all of us who enjoy the books all with the same brush, because many of us are not Janeway haters. We're simply open to new directions.

Bear in mind that Lynx's favourite character was Kes, and as I recall he basically quit watching (and reading) Voyager when she left the show.

Whoops, Ian beat me to it.

 

[rahullak]

If that's true, why would Lynx even talk about any of the episodes post-Kes let alone the relaunch continuity? This is not meant to suggest anything. I am just curious about the motivation.

 

[Fer]

Whoops! Thanks for clueing me in. (Although I suppose Therin's previous message should have been my clue!)

Sorry, Lynx. I'm still on a learning curve.
Okay, second-favorite character, then...?

 

[Thrawn]

Ahhh, Lynx. Good to know some things never change.

 

[captcalhoun]

If that's true, why would Lynx even talk about any of the episodes post-Kes let alone the relaunch continuity? This is not meant to suggest anything. I am just curious about the motivation.

because Lynx is a [redacted to prevent ANOTHER warning]

seriously, do a search for 'janeway dead' or 'death' and read the posts that resulted.

to say they were .... divisive and featured much hysterical chest-beating would be an understatement.

edit, here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=78707

and here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=81388

 

[DimesDan]

If that's true, why would Lynx even talk about any of the episodes post-Kes let alone the relaunch continuity? This is not meant to suggest anything. I am just curious about the motivation.

because Lynx is a [redacted to prevent ANOTHER warning]

seriously, do a search for 'janeway dead' or 'death' and read the posts that resulted.

to say they were .... divisive and featured much hysterical chest-beating would be an understatement.

edit, here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=78707

and here: http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=81388

Yes, the single minded fanaticalness of his previous posts were exceptionally worrisome and at other times perversely funny, sometimes in equal measures.

As for buying a Trek book just because Star Trek is on the cover, I've never been one to do that, nor will I be.

 

[Lynx]

Anyway, the Voyager relaunch died with Janeway.

only if you made the mistake of quitting there. The past 2 books (FC and Unworthy) have been by far the best VOY offerings in several years, and certainly the best since Voyager got home.

What we will have now is a bogus ship

same ship

different, in some respects, but how does that qualify as bogus? Is TNG now bogus because Data died? Or because Riker and Troi went to Titan? Does adding Tuvok make it less bogus somehow? What's the criteria here?

hugely false, and pretty much just trolling anyone that disagrees with you. Not a good way to make a strong point. In fact, I like the new direction of the series, and watched (and own) every episode of VOY. And it certainly isn't loyalty to an author, because as far as I know, I'd never heard of Kristen before her two VOY offerings.


Again, no. Enjoyed her character during the series, but just didn't think anything post-Endgame was doing her justice. She had nothing to do, and was being shoe-horned into books just because it seemed they had to get all the original characters in there somewhere. Seemed forced, wasn't interesting, and the drive of the series seemed to have moved on without her, once she finished her main objective: getting the ship and crew home. She's the "mother" character to the crew, but gotta leave the nest eventually...

Not really worth responding to, in the TrekLit section. Not everyone that disagrees with you is a mindless drone, however.

4) Those who are ardent fans of one or some of the surviving characters from the TV series Star Trek Voyager.

Off the mark, again. Like the series, like some characters better than others,but not all of us have picked sides with a character, or will defend them anywhere, etc. I do enjoy seeing the characters we've got with us in the new series, though.

While many of the ardent fans of the TV series, most of all the J/C-ers and the die-hard Janeway fans will turn their backs on the dead project and read and write fanfiction instead.

Go for it, no one is stopping you. I think you're vastly over-estimating the number of people that are going to quit and follow you, though. The books have sold well, and worst of all for your point, they're actually well written and interesting. If you had read them instead of "taking a stand" over the issue, you might understand this better. Either way, your decision won't break the back of the book series, so I know I'll continue to enjoy the new direction the books have taken for a while.

If we take it point by point
1. I don't think the books can be good when too many of the main characters are missing and replaced by characters who are totally uninteresting for me. If I want new characters, then I buy a "New Frontier" book.

2. I consider the Voyager relaunch a bogus "show", comparable with those legendary rock bands who are still touring with one or none of the original band members.

3. It wasn't my intention to troll when I stated that some people seem to be more fans of certain authors than the series. It's an impression I get when I read some of the comments about the books on different forums.

4. The same about some people enjoying the new direction of the book series because they hate Janeway. I've read several comments about people who state that they have started or are going to start read the books because Janeway has been killed off.

5. The comment about some people reading everything which has Star Trek on the cover was abit over the top, I admit that. But I have seen examples there too with people who seem to read books from all the different series because of some interest in "what happens after the different series have ended".

6. Yes, I can imagine that an ardent Seven fan, Torres fan or fan of any of the surviving main characters might continue to read about the adventures of their special favorite, no matter how screwed up the stories might be.

7. Those who are turning their backs on the "relaunch" aren't following me, I'm following them. And I see no reason to waste time and money on something which I think have taken a turn to the wrong direction. I've quit watching certain TV series or stopped buying records by certain former favorite bands for less reasons than I state for my decision to turn my back to the "relaunch" and "official Star Trek".

 

[Lynx]

I don't blame you for being upset that your favorite character was killed off, and I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it because of that.

Actually, Lynx's favourite character was Kes - but she was killed off canonically, and it made him stop watching the series!

Right, but not quite right. I have to correct a few things here.

I did stop watching he series after "The Gift" in season 4 when Kes was dumped and I didn't watch a single episode for two years.

But then I decided to give Voyager a chance, maybe because of some rumors about an up-coming return of a certain character and started to watch the show again. I actually borrowed tapes with the season 4 and season 5 episodes to catch up with what I'd missed (the TV schedule in my country was about 6 months after the US schedule so I managed to catch up in the middle of season 6).

"Fury" made me quit definitely because of reasons that I do think most of you know about. I never watched a single Voyager episode after "Fury", except for "Endgame" and I do regret watching that one.

When it comes to the books, I did buy both "Homecoming" and "The Farther Shore" when they were published, even though I wasn't that impressed. Before that I did read the "Dark matters" trilogy and recently I've read the other books Golden wrote in the relaunch as well. I've also read the "String Theory" books.

Fer wrote:

Whoops! Thanks for clueing me in. (Although I suppose Therin's previous message should have been my clue!)

Sorry, Lynx. I'm still on a learning curve.
Okay, second-favorite character, then...?

Second-favorite isn't quite right either. That position belongs to Chakotay. Third favoorite might be a more appropriate conclusion.

Anyway, hope you find the discussion interesting and entertaining.