race vs species

[RB_Kandy]

Something I always found odd on Star Trek was that vulcans, klingons, humans and the like are referred to as different races.
And these races can intermix, produce offspring. So technically that would make them races.

Unfortunately this is more far fetched than physical holograms.
The chances of two sentient intelligent life forms from different planets being able to produce offspring is one in... one in something ridiculous. It's right up there with that episode of TOS that had an identical planet, with an identical constitution, American flag, all by chance. As ridiculous as that was, that's pretty much the chances that two different intelligent groups of bipeds from different planets would have compatible DNA, to produce offspring.

I'd be willing to believe that if you collected bacteria from a million different planets, the DNA of two or more would be compatible, but not complex creatures such as humans and Kilingons.

Was Gene Roddenberry this mislead to how evolution works, or was it deliberately done so that different "species" could be symbolic of different human races, to promote the message that human races can bury the hatchet and get along?

 

[Christopher]

Was Gene Roddenberry this mislead to how evolution works, or was it deliberately done so that different "species" could be symbolic of different human races, to promote the message that human races can bury the hatchet and get along?

Well, first off, Gene Roddenberry was just one of many people who wrote for the show. As much as he tried to claim sole credit, this is a case where the auteur theory holds no water, and there's very little that he deserves the exclusive credit or blame for.

Second, this is fiction, and aliens in fiction are usually symbolic representations of humanity -- not literally of human ethnic groups, but of different values, attitudes, facets of human nature, etc. Humanoid aliens were a long-running trope in science fiction long before Star Trek came along, and so were human-alien hybrids. Edgar Rice Burroughs's John Carter had children with the Martian woman Dejah Thoris, and Isaac Asimov wrote two short stories about human-Martian hybrids called Tweenies. Heck, you could argue that the concept goes back to ancient mythology with all its half-human, half-divine heroes like Gilgamesh, Hercules, and Cu Chulainn.

I suspect that Roddenberry's original thinking behind making Spock half-human and half-alien was to justify using a human actor with limited alien makeup. In the original series proposal, he justified Spock's exotic appearance by saying he was "probably half-Martian" (it was a while before "Vulcan" was coined), which implies to me that maybe he figured a full "Martian" would be even more alien-looking. Aside from that, they probably gave him a human half as a basis for audience identification -- sure, he's alien, but part of him is like us.

As for subsequent human-alien hybrids in later Trek shows -- and elsewhere -- they were just following the precedent set by Spock. In Deanna Troi's case, according to the TNG writers' bible, it was expressly done to give her more limited telepathy than a full Betazoid, since too strong a telepathic ability would've been too easy a solution to too many crises and made it harder to generate stories. For K'Ehleyr it was about following the Spocklike precedent of having a character torn between two natures (as a contrast to Worf, a full Klingon but raised by humans). B'Elanna Torres was basically K'Ehleyr take 2, or Spock take 3, since "hybrid torn between two worlds" had proven to be an effective character type (though Seven of Nine ultimately ended up filling that role at least as much as Torres). Tora Ziyal was more about racism -- her existence was a matter of shame to Gul Dukat because of Cardassian attitudes toward Bajorans.

So there's really no single reason why it was done. Human-alien hybrids are a longstanding science fiction trope, albeit an increasingly discredited one these days, so they've served many roles over the decades. (Or over the millennia, if you replace "alien" with "supernatural being.")

 

[C.E. Evans]

I think at some point you just gotta say "It's just make believe." If Star Trek ever strove for 100% scientific accuracy, it'd may satisfy scientists but would bore the hell out of everyone else given how much of it's just made up stuff, done for dramatic necessity only, or relies on suspension of disbelief.

 

[Shatinator]

Was Gene Roddenberry this mislead to how evolution works, or was it deliberately done so that different "species" could be symbolic of different human races, to promote the message that human races can bury the hatchet and get along?

Well, first off, Gene Roddenberry was just one of many people who wrote for the show. As much as he tried to claim sole credit, this is a case where the auteur theory holds no water, and there's very little that he deserves the exclusive credit or blame for.

Second, this is fiction, and aliens in fiction are usually symbolic representations of humanity -- not literally of human ethnic groups, but of different values, attitudes, facets of human nature, etc. Humanoid aliens were a long-running trope in science fiction long before Star Trek came along, and so were human-alien hybrids. Edgar Rice Burroughs's John Carter had children with the Martian woman Dejah Thoris, and Isaac Asimov wrote two short stories about human-Martian hybrids called Tweenies. Heck, you could argue that the concept goes back to ancient mythology with all its half-human, half-divine heroes like Gilgamesh, Hercules, and Cu Chulainn.

I suspect that Roddenberry's original thinking behind making Spock half-human and half-alien was to justify using a human actor with limited alien makeup. In the original series proposal, he justified Spock's exotic appearance by saying he was "probably half-Martian" (it was a while before "Vulcan" was coined), which implies to me that maybe he figured a full "Martian" would be even more alien-looking. Aside from that, they probably gave him a human half as a basis for audience identification -- sure, he's alien, but part of him is like us.

As for subsequent human-alien hybrids in later Trek shows -- and elsewhere -- they were just following the precedent set by Spock. In Deanna Troi's case, according to the TNG writers' bible, it was expressly done to give her more limited telepathy than a full Betazoid, since too strong a telepathic ability would've been too easy a solution to too many crises and made it harder to generate stories. For K'Ehleyr it was about following the Spocklike precedent of having a character torn between two natures (as a contrast to Worf, a full Klingon but raised by humans). B'Elanna Torres was basically K'Ehleyr take 2, or Spock take 3, since "hybrid torn between two worlds" had proven to be an effective character type (though Seven of Nine ultimately ended up filling that role at least as much as Torres). Tora Ziyal was more about racism -- her existence was a matter of shame to Gul Dukat because of Cardassian attitudes toward Bajorans.

So there's really no single reason why it was done. Human-alien hybrids are a longstanding science fiction trope, albeit an increasingly discredited one these days, so they've served many roles over the decades. (Or over the millennia, if you replace "alien" with "supernatural being.")

 

[Nerys Myk]

I think at some point you just gotta say "It's just make believe." If Star Trek ever strove for 100% scientific accuracy, it'd may satisfy scientists but would bore the hell out of everyone else given how much of it's just made up stuff, done for dramatic necessity only, or relies on suspension of disbelief.

It would probably bore the hell out of some scientists, too.

 

[MacLeod]

Well there was a little episode TNG called "The Chase" which tried to answer this question. Not saying it answers it fully or properly

 

[CorporalCaptain]

TOS: The Paradise Syndrome also has a bearing on the subject.

 

[Deks]

I think at some point you just gotta say "It's just make believe." If Star Trek ever strove for 100% scientific accuracy, it'd may satisfy scientists but would bore the hell out of everyone else given how much of it's just made up stuff, done for dramatic necessity only, or relies on suspension of disbelief.

It would probably bore the hell out of some scientists, too.

Logical fallacy.
Very few people are fully aware of what our real technology is capable of today, let alone technology of the future.
For that matter, a lot of things devised in Trek are basically a reality today.

Plus... I'm actually bored of how Trek was dumbed down for the sake of drama all the time and 'action'.
It shows the inability of writers to use what they were given and stick to the pre-established premise -and so they degraded it more and more until it became early 21st century in space.
Now THAT's boring.

 

[Christopher]

It's not a fallacy. Scientists are human beings too. They like to be entertained as much as the next person, and I've heard plenty of scientists -- including scientific consultants for TV and movies -- say that it's perfectly all right for a work of fiction to bend or disregard their scientific advice if it serves the story. It's all about willing suspension of disbelief. I mean, fans of The West Wing knew that Josiah Bartlet wasn't the current president of the US, but they chose to set aside that knowledge of reality so they could enjoy the fiction. By the same token, scientists can set aside their knowledge that FTL travel is prohibitively difficult or interspecies breeding couldn't happen or universal translators aren't feasible and just enjoy the story, if the story's good enough to justify those departures from reality, and ideally if the departures are intentional dramatic license rather than just laziness and ignorance.

 

[MacLeod]

^Agreed, there is a difference between serving the needs of the story and what could be termed 'Did not do the research'. Were an obviously wrong fact has been put in.

Fictional universes have there own rules and we as an audiane accept these, what can cause us to break our suspension of disbelief is when a universe starts to break it's own rules.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

Second, this is fiction

Enough said.

Sure, aliens breeding with humans is impossible. And silencers don't make guns silent, cars don't burst into flames when you shoot the gas tank, there's no sound in space, an invisible person would be blind, planes don't simply plummet to the earth when they run out of fuel, and being thrown through a plate-glass window would slice you to ribbons.

It's fiction. It's called Science Fiction for a reason.