questions I have to pose

[Mereope]

How would turning the supernova into a black hole and helped not-destroy Romulus in any way?

That was the part that convinced me that the supernova was not actually in the Romulus solar system. If it's a couple of ly's away when it blows, you throw the Red Matter in, and it becomes the Hoover Vacuum Black Hole, sucking up all that pesky dust bunny explosiveness before it starts spreading across the galaxy.

Which is still just sooo wrong, it makes my head hurt.

 

[Tarek71]

Theres nothing about the transwarp-speed supernova (Abramsnova?) that makes any sense. And then Spock was going to fly into the supernova and suck it up with the Magic Sun-sucking Goo? Good Grief!

Not exactly Great Moments in Screenwriting.

 

[Captain Fine]

It really does sound bad when you word it that way!

 

[pookha]

1. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't we see the Narada zap a pod right before the Kelvin rams it? I just assumed George protected them until the end. The Narada was looking to destory them, but was stopped by George. The Narada got off a few shots before the Kelvin rammed and then was crippled.
?

yep as gimpy pointed out george was shooting down their weapons as long as he could could.
when all the kelvin weapons were off line he set in the collision course.

as for the supernova thing..
well consider that some things do go faster then light.
there are some theories that certain types of radiation from a supernova
can travel faster then light.

we also know some supernova can be 13 times the size of our solar system.
say this one is larger then that.
and it is do dangerous it affects the other stars as it crosses into their systems.
some it destablizes and they become more powerful ect..
others well this gets more odd say it triggers a supernova in some that are
white dwarves.. you then have this cascade effect.
is the science on the odd side..
yeah but so is slingshot around the sun ect..

something similar has happened before in sf.
niven had the core exploding in and outward cascade.

 

[nx1701g]

One thought I had from previous Trek films.

In Generations it was established that a dying star produces a shockwave of different levels. What if the Supernova created a shockwave of a massive level taht could just continue moving. The shockwave did appear to be moving faster than light in it as well.

 

[Jax]

why didn't the Narada destroy the shuttles. the wide shot made them look like easy pickins!

The Kelvin was protecting the shuttles with its phasers and then afterwards you could see the impact had done a lot of damage to the Narada so most likely weapons offline and no engines either.

How sould a supernova put the whole galaxy at risk?

It wouldn't, its possible that a giant supernova could affect a distance of hundreds if not thousands of lightyears (such things would be rare) but not the whole galaxy. The writers really should of changed that bit to threatened the entire Quadrant or dozens of worlds.

I think the star going off, set off the Romulan's star going off and that could been repeated in other places and for everyone else the problem would of been there planet being hit by huge amount of Gamma Rays that it would strip their planets of any atmosphere.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

Perhaps the original supernova destabilized a subspace fault that caused other stars along its path (including Romulus or whatever the Romulan star is called, and eventually Vulcan if left unchecked) to go nova as well. And since it's subspace, the effects can propagate faster than light.

Yeah, that's the ticket...

Possible, or some property of the star or the solar system it inhabits is unusual.

Here's a theory. We know from "Pen Pals" that dilithium in high concentrations can take ambient energy and somehow transform it into other types. This can cause an entire planet to blow itself apart. Furthermore, from ST VI, we know that a heavily laden dilithium planet when it blows can produce a "shockwave" that can be felt many many light years away.

Maybe that star that went nova was in a heavy dilithium system, and the crystals amplified, rechanneled and converted part of the explosion's energy to make the effect self-sustaining.

 

[Mereope]

And yet, no matter how you slice it, there is still the Inverse Square Law, and the vastness of space. No matter how big the boom, the effects drop off significantly with distance.

"The energy twice as far from the source is spread over four times the area, hence one-fourth the intensity."

The most massive known stars are in the 100-200 solar mass range, with the hypothetical limit for stars past their formation stage is about 150 solar masses. Eta Carina is a good candidate for a massive star(s) on the edge of going supernova. So those types would produce the biggest boom- and the answer is still "not a big enough kaboom".

No matter what their composition, or size, the effect of the "boom" decreases with distance. They just cant do damage on a galactic scale. A GRB can do a great deal of damage, but is limited to a very focused line going through the bursts' axis. If you're off that line by just a few degrees, you're safe.

The Universe is scary, but it's not

 

[darkwing_duck1]

^Not if the effect becomes self-perpetuating, which this effect apparently did. The supernova was continuously producing new "booms.

 

[Da'an]

Yet only Romulus was destroyed because of Spock being too late to stop it?

 

[Jax]

Yet only Romulus was destroyed because of Spock being too late to stop it?

Actually the star was early

but what you going to, I mean Spock's old and he needed that one last toilet break before setting off.

 

[RAMA]

1. why didn't the Narada destroy the shuttles. the wide shot made them look like easy pickins!
2. How sould a supernova put the whole galaxy at risk?

2 reasons: George Kirk is shown shooting down the Narada missles with phaser fire in order to protect the fleeing shuttles.

Also because the ship was momentarily disabled/distracted by a huge 1500 foot ship crashing into it..

 

[Mereope]

Yet only Romulus was destroyed because of Spock being too late to stop it?

Precisely. And if it could be a self-perpetuating "Boom Machine", that would mean it could, oh, destroy the entire universe? Which would make it the only star in the entire existence of the known universe to have this property. Because if there had ever been so much as ONE other star with this property, the galaxy/universe would already have been destroyed.

I hope everyone realizes I mean this in good fun. But this is a case where the infamous Trekbabble is actually necessary. I would never sit around debating the improbability of Warp Drive, artificial gravity, or transporters (which are an interesting case, because scientists have teleported energy packets), because they fall under "not invented yet". That supernova is a grand exception, because it violates some pretty hard, known, facts about the nature of stars- which really aren't as complicated as you may think.

When they need new warp cores and dilithium crystals to replace the ones the black hole ate, I don't blink an eye. But if they ever tried to explain warp drive as using the aetherial medium in which objects always move faster than light, then I have to go into mode, or at least just shake my head and wonder what happened to the movies science advisor when they wrote that scene. (I suspect she was distracted by the male members of the cast- and wasn't paying attention that day!)

 

[pookha]

just curious have you read nivens known space stuff.
not kidding about the core explosion stuff.


i dont see this thing taking out the whole galaxy.

but perhaps a significant portion of the federation and other neighboring areas.
maybe.

i havent kept up with a lot of stuff like i used to about 20 years ago.
but there is some interesting stuff about nova's affecting neighboring stars with one description that what it takes is to hit a white dwarf and wham.

but there is funky stuff in trek from the start with the galatic barrier that brings out latent telepathic power.. a cold start of the warp drive causing the ship to go back in time.

 

[Captrek]

Theres nothing about the transwarp-speed supernova (Abramsnova?) that makes any sense. And then Spock was going to fly into the supernova and suck it up with the Magic Sun-sucking Goo? Good Grief!

Not exactly Great Moments in Screenwriting.

You know what would have been cooler than a supernova?

SPOCK: You know that moon where you’re generating all your energy? You’re overmining and have insufficient safety precautions.

SENATE: Shut up, Spock. Everything’s fine.

SPOCK: *Sigh.* Politicians are the same all over.

JOR-EL: Tell me about it.

You could add in some neat irony if Nero and the Narada participated in the mining that caused the problem in the first place.

 

[Jeri]

Regarding red matter, the novelization mentions that red matter normally floats around in space harmlessly; but that it is activated upon encountering a sufficient heat source. It made me wonder if they're implying black holes in space are created from heated red matter.

Anyway, so it doesn't really matter how much or how little cool red matter you carry around. You just don't want your ship to be hit while you're doing so. I imagine they only took it out this one time -- a very special occasion.

I read the Countdown trade paperback, but I don't remember if it said why the Vulcans would be induced to outfit the Jellyfish with such a huge quantity of red matter.

Maybe when Spock set off, they didn't know how much would be needed to quell the super duper nova and wanted to have a good supply in case it required extra dosing.

Somewhere in the book, I think it also said that the central configuration where the red matter was stored was specially designed for it. I don't know what design features were incorporated to accommodate it.