Question, is Scotty a murderer?

[Exigeous]

Was just bored/sick and rewatching Into Darkness. At the scene when Kahn and Kirk are flying from the Enterprise to the Vengeance Scotty is being held at phaser point by the security guard (here out out named McGuardFace). Now I know McGuardFace is supposed to be the "bad guy" but is he really? McGuardFace is just some security officer that Admiral Marcus knew and promoted/transferred. While McGuardFace likely knows what they are doing isn't exactly legal it's probably been sold/pitched as "we have to do this to keep the Federation safe!" montra where he believes he's a good guy - and arguably McGuardFace is.

So here's Scotty read to blow the hatch and can only say "sorry about this" to blow McGuardFace out into space killing him? If you watch Kahn and Kirk both enter the ship a good 1-2 seconds before McGuardFace giving Scotty time to have closed the hatch before blowing him into space. Quick shot of Kirk/Kahn flying in, back to Scotty to slam the button and quick shot showing McGuardFace sliding along the floor, like Kirk/Kahn, and slam into the wall knocking him out. They guys all escape and Scotty didn't murder McGuardFace.

Overthinking this, sure. Isn't that what a good Trek forum is for though? (sorry, new around here...)

~X

 

[Markonian]

Khan.

They were in a combat situation and Commander Scott had a weapon pointed at him. Justifiable.

Have we seen similar situations before, or are there regulations for these in existing Earth militaries?

 

[Exigeous]

Have we seen similar situations before, or are there regulations for these in existing Earth militaries?

Good question actually, not a military man myself so can't answer. Oh and you're of course right, hopefully you could read the tongue in my cheek, if not I'll update ;-) While it was absolutely justifiable I would maintain they could have easily had McGuardFace live not only saving Scotty's reputation but to add to it (from saving McGuardFace)

 

[The Wormhole]

They were in a combat situation and Commander Scott had a weapon pointed at him.

This exactly, this was a combat situation and "McGuardFace" (I can't believe I actually just typed that) was an enemy combatant who would have killed Scotty given the chance. Scotty killing him is no more "murder" than military personnel killing an enemy combatant is.

 

[Kor]

McGuardFace

You win this thread.

Kor

 

[F. King Daniel]

Aren't the Klingons they fight on Kronos just "keeping the Klingon Empire safe"? Where do we draw the line between what's acceptable killing and what isn't?

 

[Exigeous]

Again just making sure everyone knows I really am kidding. It did pop into my head though so I figured WTF, funny post. Oh and I finally got to use McGuardFace, first name McGaurd. We haven't even talked about the damage to the rest of his family, he's out working risking hazard pay simply to pay off the debts his wife earned playing cards with McSharkFace. McWifeFace got in deep with him and the rest of McMob and now she and McDaughterFace and McSonFace are getting threatened by McAssassinFace, the deadliest of all the McMercenaries.

Back to Scotty I wonder if this even came up in production, I can see it being a discussion for sure as they were building the scene. As detailed as most film makers are it's likely it did come up and with a great a director as I think McJJ is I bet it did. I'd love to hear that story, definitely would be my question if I ever met him.

 

[Devilpogostick]

Well yeah, Scotty killed a guy. But the situation he was in basically became a moment where he had to do something or else he and the Enterprise crew are screwed. Guardman was doing his job...Yet is kinda on board with having his ship destroy another helpless one to give way to a war.

I mean they could have sat down drinking to discuss morality but frankly, Scotty had a job to do, and at least he did regret doing it.

To be honest, I thought the topic is if the "Murder" is about Scotty's failed transwarp on Porthos (though unlikely, but still hinted it was him...But unlikely) and if Archer tried so hard in his wrath to put Scotty in life imprisonment or even death row for it only for Trip (...I honestly don't want Trip to be dead) or T'Pol to convince him to lighten the sentence.

 

[Exigeous]

...I mean they could have sat down drinking to discuss morality but frankly, Scotty had a job to do, and at least he did regret doing it....

...I thought the topic is if the "Murder" is about Scotty's failed transwarp on Porthos....

Again totally agree that he did what he "had to do" to survive, and for that of course he's not a murderer, but had I not used the click-bait title we wouldn't be chatting and hopefully laughing about this. I suppose more than anything I wonder if this was even considered during production. I'd sorta think no but given the amazing amount of detail that goes into a feature film it quite possibly was.

As for Porthos that's hysterical! I remember hearing that and thinking "poor Porthos! He was WAY too cool to test with and treat that way!!" I've been a dog trainer for 20+ years and absolutely love beagles. I specialize with service/guide dogs so usually goldens, shepards and my favorite labs. Beagles have so much personality they are a joy to work with.

And yes, you do wonder what consequence would have befell him for that - in fact is that why he was stationed there, haven't seen it in a bit. If so that's a pretty good sentence I suppose....

 

[The Wormhole]

Oh and I finally got to use McGuardFace, first name McGaurd. We haven't even talked about the damage to the rest of his family, he's out working risking hazard pay simply to pay off the debts his wife earned playing cards with McSharkFace. McWifeFace got in deep with him and the rest of McMob and now she and McDaughterFace and McSonFace are getting threatened by McAssassinFace, the deadliest of all the McMercenaries.

So, I take it you either eat or work at McDonalds?

 

[photon70]

Scotty is not a murderer anymore than the crew of the Enterprise are responsible for the deaths of many people in the buildings the Vengeance crashed into, due to the damage she suffered at the hands of the Enterprise crew.

 

[Tosk]

Or when Kirk (with Spock's agreement) killed all those Romulans in the first Kelvin flick. They shot a bunch of them dead, then blew up the rest.

 

[Timo]

Scotty could plead nonlethal intent in the case of McGuardFace - there's no way in hell his actions ought to have resulted in the guard being ejected to space in those circumstances!

Opening that hatch should produce just a mild breeze at the distance by which the two were separated from the suction. Conversely, if there was enough airflow to accelerate the guard to the speeds we witnessed, that same airflow should have stopped Kirk and Khan dead on their tracks instead of allowing them to glide all the way to Scotty.

I guess Scotty could have been preparing for the latter by not merely opening the hatch, but also erecting a horizontal artificial gravity field to decelerate the incoming heroes. Unfortunately, that field would then also turn the guard into a projectile.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Smellmet]

So, I take it you either eat or work at McDonalds?

I have a hunch he's referencing the naming of a polar research vessel - the Boaty Mcboatface. The name was chosen by a poll in the UK.

I could be wrong of course.

 

[Devilpogostick]

And yes, you do wonder what consequence would have befell him for that - in fact is that why he was stationed there, haven't seen it in a bit. If so that's a pretty good sentence I suppose....

Yeah, it was mostly implied that's why Scotty ended up being posted in a dead end station.

I'm just imaging Archer, who should be fully developed of character, suddenly go in a pissy mood as he reverts to his early season days, and poor Scotty barely avoided the worse of it. XD

 

[Tenacity]

A killer yes, a murder no.

 

[Timo]

Naturally, that would depend on who is doing the accusing: being a soldier and killing in order to accomplish your mission doesn't get you off the hook on murder charges unless the person you killed belongs to a nation your army beat to submission so that the nation dare not press charges.

But who would accuse Scotty? Marcus might, for sheer shits and giggles, moments before he phasered the poor engineer to oblivion. But Marcus would never write an official report on those particular events. At most, he'd write a report summarily declaring the late Kirk and his whole best-forgotten crew terrorists, baby-eating rapists and whatnot - but this would not touch upon what they really did.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Balok's Decoy]

Opening the hatch allowed Kirk and Khan to get on board, which eventually saved the lives of the Enterprise crew and ultimately, I think, Starfleet's soul. Scotty having to kill the guard is unfortunate but in that situation a necessary evil. He's not a murderer.

 

[The Wormhole]

Scotty is not a murderer anymore than the crew of the Enterprise are responsible for the deaths of many people in the buildings the Vengeance crashed into, due to the damage she suffered at the hands of the Enterprise crew.

Actually, Vengeance didn't crash because of the damage inflicted on it. Vengeance crashed because Khan told the computer to take the ship to Starfleet Command, and it obliged literally.

 

[urbandefault]

He was collateral damage. It wasn't a malicious kill, the dumbass security dude on the wrong side just got in the way.

Enlisting in the military comes with the understanding that you could die in the line of duty.