Question about TWOK

[Timo]

I can attest to it being prohibitively slow to don protective gear of most sorts in most situations. You either are clad, or you aren't - there's no changing the status in a hurry.

"Radiation suits" are different: those today are just paper coveralls that require little precision or care, or lead-lined vests that require even less, and OTOH don't really offer any real protection. But if what Scotty and his little people are wearing in those movies are really Trek radiation suits (nobody ever says they would be), then they obviously, that is, visibly, are more akin to the cold water survival suits of those working in arctic waters, and basically flat out impossible to don in four minutes - least of all remove from an unconscious man and then don!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[J.T.B.]

You are just over thinking it as usual. All we need to know is that Scotty has been exposed to radiation and is unable to function. How he got exposed is irrelevant. It could have happened at somewhere else in engineering not seen on screen, it just doesn't matter. The scene as presented is fine.

Agreed. Scotty could have gotten a dose as a result of battle damage that was got under control. Like a broken steam pipe in a traditional ship's engine room: Could be serious burns for those right next to it, but can be pretty quickly shut off. We know engineering was not in great shape even before they took the phaser hit in the nebula, and McCoy is there so presumably there were already injuries, so what felled Scotty need not be specifically related to the repair Spock needs to do.

As for the suit, my guess is that the blast Spock unleashed when he took the cap off that pedestal thing was more than a suit could handle. He knew he would be a goner either way so he just took the quickest course of action.

 

[gottacook]

Also keep in mind that radiation shielding would probably be opaque, not transparent. The only reason the walls of the chamber are transparent is the same reason the whale enclosures on the Klingon ship had to be made of transparent aluminum in TVH: so the audience could see.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

It seems the simplest explanation is Scotty (and the other engineer seen in the background) were working in the "Mains" chamber when the radiation venting started. He quickly took them offline, stemming the leak temporarily, and high-tailed it out of the room. They were both exposed enough to show clinical effects, albeit not fatal.

 

[UssGlenn]

the same reason the whale enclosures on the Klingon ship had to be made of transparent aluminum in TVH

Point of order, the whale enclosure is made of 6" thick plexiglass, they just trade the aluminum formula to get it. Doesn't change your point, but it's a common misconception.

 

[DonIago]

It seems most likely to me that Scotty got exposed to radiation either in or out of the chamber which led to him losing consciousness.

Spock didn't suit up because he didn't have the time, he knew it would be irrelevant, or both. He also received a much more concentrated dosage of radiation than Scotty, almost certainly.

 

[FormerLurker]

As for the suit, my guess is that the blast Spock unleashed when he took the cap off that pedestal thing was more than a suit could handle. He knew he would be a goner either way so he just took the quickest course of action.

This is reflected in the script. Up until Spock moves to the pedestal, Bones and Scotty are yelling "Get out of there!" When Spock grabs the top of the pedestal, Scotty suddenly yells, "No, Spock, Don't!" Scotty knew the faceful of radiation Spock would get would do him in right quick.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But seriously, the video from the post below, syncs up the TWOK footage to the countdown and shows that Spock got from the bridge to Engineering in 35 seconds.

It's a nice idea, but the execution is way off. Their clock shows 1:40 left on the countdown when Saavik says that there's 2:10 left. And they way they edited it, Khan would definitely see the Enterprise warping away before the Reliant blows up. The film makes it clear that Khan died thinking he'd won.

And yes of course Scotty was succumbing to radiation in Engineering. That's why those blast doors were lowering -- to cut off the areas where they were experiencing radiation leaks. His protective suit helped a bit, but obviously not enough. Maybe if he'd had his helmet on he could've held out for longer.

Don't ask me why the blast door is apparently going straight through the warp chamber, though. I've got nothing there. ...Maybe they rerouted the power somehow?

 

[David cgc]

It's a nice idea, but the execution is way off. Their clock shows 1:40 left on the countdown when Saavik says that there's 2:10 left.

I think they were interpreting "Time, from my mark" and the countdown getting larger as the scene progressed as them counting up from when they detected Genesis firing up, and not counting down to the detention. Though I would've pegged 1:50/2:10 to when Saavik reads it, and not the instant Kirk asks for the time.

 

[Timo]

Also keep in mind that radiation shielding would probably be opaque, not transparent.

Why? Visual wavelengths aren't likely to be channels for harmful radiation. And polymers are better at stopping particulate radiation than metals; all those vision-blocking free electrons are just sign that your material is too heavy and dense to be truly effective (that is, weight-effective).

Don't ask me why the blast door is apparently going straight through the warp chamber, though. I've got nothing there. ...Maybe they rerouted the power somehow?

Or then the wall is transparent to power.

Or will be, once the power is turned back on. It's just that if there are seals that keep the power contained in a shaft that has a physical gap in it (the one through which the bulkhead will later descend), those seals are likely to work even if there's a containment bulkhead in that gap, a bulkhead that now has a hole burned through it at the center...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Oh god, let's not get started on the door that slides through the warp co...horizontal intermix chamber...that was one of the things that first led me to post here...

 

[Timo]

It would seem to be a non-starter, yes - after all, they contain the antimatter magic in a forcefield bottle of some sort, and the physical stuff around it is sort of superfluous to the setup.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

And they way they edited it, Khan would definitely see the Enterprise warping away before the Reliant blows up. The film makes it clear that Khan died thinking he'd won.

But we don't get a reaction shot of Khan between "Go Sulu!" and the Genesis detonation, so we don't know what he saw. In the last split second of his life he may have been conscious of the Enterprise's getaway.

 

[Damian]

I have to admit, I never really gave the radiation much thought.

I always figured Scotty was exposed to a non-lethal dose or radiation that just made him sick before McCoy arrived to give him radiation treatment. As others have noted probably when he went to take the mains off he was exposed. It wasn't in the script probably because it wasn't important to the story. After all, they can't explain every last detail in any movie or the movie would be 16 hours long.

As for Spock flooding the compartment, that seems pretty obvious to me. Before Spock opened the lid the radiation was already probably pretty high which is why no one went back in there, including Scotty. I don't believe Scotty or anyone in engineering were aware of how dire the situation was. Remember Kirk tried to call engineering to tell them they needed warp speed or they were all dead and got no response. I figured the comm was down and they never knew at that time how close to destruction they were. They may have thought they had all the time in the world.

Once he took the lid off it probably became almost instantly lethal. A radiation suit probably would have been pointless in that amount of radiation. He was getting blasted in the face after all. When Kirk arrived the chamber was probably still loaded with radiation and they probably had to wait for it to drop before opening it up to get Spock's body out. We don't know but I assumed it could have been up to several hours even.

As for the earlier question about beaming up, I figure this is one of those cases where they have to be at a particular beam down spot due to interference, probably from the atmosphere. It's been used as a plot point before in Star Trek.

 

[J.T.B.]

Don't ask me why the blast door is apparently going straight through the warp chamber, though. I've got nothing there. ...Maybe they rerouted the power somehow?

Yeah, that classic. And we're surprised they have radiation leaks?

 

[FormerLurker]

But we don't get a reaction shot of Khan between "Go Sulu!" and the Genesis detonation, so we don't know what he saw. In the last split second of his life he may have been conscious of the Enterprise's getaway.

Not true. Khan gasps out, "Now you can't get away. From hell's heart, I stab at thee. For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." and visibly dies, his eyes blanking and turning away from the screen. They just don't wait to watch him fall away before going back to the Enterprise.

 

[Kor]

This is reflected in the script. Up until Spock moves to the pedestal, Bones and Scotty are yelling "Get out of there!" When Spock grabs the top of the pedestal, Scotty suddenly yells, "No, Spock, Don't!" Scotty knew the faceful of radiation Spock would get would do him in right quick.

His hands were probably in pristine condition due to the gloves.

Kor

 

[JonnyQuest037]

But we don't get a reaction shot of Khan between "Go Sulu!" and the Genesis detonation, so we don't know what he saw. In the last split second of his life he may have been conscious of the Enterprise's getaway.

I'm sure if the filmmakers wanted us to think that, they would have shown it to us. But they didn't, so we have to go with what's there. The film shows Khan being completely unaware that the Enterprise survived.

 

[DonIago]

Honestly, given all that the guy's gone through, maybe he deserves a little (ultimately harmless) happiness right before he dies. Let him think he's won.

 

[FormerLurker]

His hands were probably in pristine condition due to the gloves.

Kor

There was some creeping decay on the backs of his hands as he said his goodbye to Kirk. And, of course, his face was slowly falling off. Incredible makeup in that scene.