Question about TWOK

[Timo]

For all we know, Scotty passed out for not having eaten anything since the "wee bout" at the beginning of the adventure.

But it would be interesting to learn what our heroic Scotsman did in the preceding moments. Dive into the deadly chamber in the vain hopes of doing some good, then dive out again? Just slam the door shut and nevertheless get an unhealthy dose of the contents? Concentrate on tending to the other bits that threatened to go kaboom, while resigning to the fact that main power would stay offline till Tuesday?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Smellmet]

For all we know, Scotty passed out for not having eaten anything since the "wee bout" at the beginning of the adventure.

Timo Saloniemi

He clearly states before he passes out that it's the radiation.

 

[Timo]

...That prevents him from fixing the ship. What fells the man himself is not made explicit.

Whether it's made clear is a different issue.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Vger23]

But in all seriousness, possibly taking the time out to do that (it's presented as a spur of the moment choice by Spock) is why he didn't have time left to clamber into a protective suit. Although if so, it defeats the purpose of putting the katra in there.

Maybe Spock was counting down the split seconds and just realized with Bones and Scotty putting up resistance he'd run out of options and really was going to have to self-sacrifice?

Or the radiation in the chamber was more than the suits were designed to handle. Personally, I think it had more to do with the time available.

There were only 4 mins from the time Khan activated the device. Probably no way Spock could have put a suit on, assuming a suit would even have helped.

In retrospect, it's actually completely ridiculous that Spock made it all the way down there, with inoperative turbolifts, had a discussion, had a mind-meld, and then enough time to repair the warp engines.

 

[Smellmet]

...That prevents him from fixing the ship. What fells the man himself is not made explicit.

Whether it's made clear is a different issue.

Timo Saloniemi

The film makes it clear to the viewer it's the radiation. He's fine once Kirk gets down there after taking the mains off the line. Stop making things up.

 

[Tomalak]

He's fine as soon as Spock goes in - whatever shot Bones gave him must have taken a minute to take effect.

 

[UssGlenn]

In retrospect, it's actually completely ridiculous that Spock made it all the way down there, with inoperative turbolifts, had a discussion, had a mind-meld, and then enough time to repair the warp engines.

emergency slides?
But seriously, the video from the post below, syncs up the TWOK footage to the countdown and shows that Spock got from the bridge to Engineering in 35 seconds.

Donny's TUC Enterprise-A Interiors

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Maurice]

^^^I think there are some dubious conclusions there, but it's an interesting exercise.

God I hate these awful computer voices.

 

[David cgc]

The countdown clock does make the whole thing a lot more tense. Christ, Bones, let the man work, you've already lost two minutes!

 

[Timo]

The film makes it clear to the viewer it's the radiation. He's fine once Kirk gets down there after taking the mains off the line. Stop making things up.

Just trying to help the writers here not make an ass out of either Scotty or themselves.

If there's deadly radiation in the sealed chamber and nowhere else, what happened to give Scotty a dose of the radiation? Did he go in and fail to so much as open the lid on the thing that needed to be fixed? Why did he fail? Was he an idiot who only belatedly realized he would die of the action? Did he utterly unrealistically feel the effects of the radiation ASAP, after having failed the idiot test previously by having entered the chamber without checking on the instruments or figuring out what was likely wrong inside?

In all of those scenarios, why did he back off at all? He'd know he already got an unhealthy dose. Why not at least get the job started, all the while telling the next guy how he will continue once he sees Scotty die, and how the guy after that will complete the job?

If Scotty didn't go in, then it's not the radiation that is making him faint.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Smellmet]

Just trying to help the writers here not make an ass out of either Scotty or themselves.

If there's deadly radiation in the sealed chamber and nowhere else, what happened to give Scotty a dose of the radiation? Did he go in and fail to so much as open the lid on the thing that needed to be fixed? Why did he fail? Was he an idiot who only belatedly realized he would die of the action? Did he utterly unrealistically feel the effects of the radiation ASAP, after having failed the idiot test previously by having entered the chamber without checking on the instruments or figuring out what was likely wrong inside?

In all of those scenarios, why did he back off at all? He'd know he already got an unhealthy dose. Why not at least get the job started, all the while telling the next guy how he will continue once he sees Scotty die, and how the guy after that will complete the job?

If Scotty didn't go in, then it's not the radiation that is making him faint.

Timo Saloniemi

Are you seriously suggesting that what fells Scotty is something to do with the 'wee bout' that was briefly mentioned in Kirk's inspection and not the radiation from the engine room? Please. The film makes perfectly clear what is happening without spoon-feeding unnecessary scenes to the audience and ruining the pacing of the film.

Radiation is clearly the only harmful factor in this sequence as it's obviously setting up Spock's sacrifice, and the fact that he can tolerate it in there for longer than any human, and the fact that Scotty actually says it. We don't need to see whether or not Scotty went in there, we can assume he has, or that it's leaked into the outer room, it doesn't matter. the scene that was presented was sufficient.

Anything else is just made up nonsense.

 

[urbandefault]

"You'll flood the whole compartment!" -McCoy, as Kirk reaches to open the reactor chamber.

Scotty was obviously exposed, however minimally, before Spock arrived.

 

[Smellmet]

"You'll flood the whole compartment!" -McCoy, as Kirk reaches to open the reactor chamber.

Scotty was obviously exposed, however minimally, before Spock arrived.

Precisely.

 

[Tomalak]

Scotty was also wearing a radiation suit and gloves, preventing the dangerous dose he received being fatal. Presumably the helmet he'd removed is just out of sight.

 

[XCV330]

If Scotty didn't go in, then it's not the radiation that is making him faint.

Timo Saloniemi

We seem to consistently watch different versions of the same movies and episodes. Must be director's cuts or something.

Just because he had protective clothing (everyone in engineering was shown to have protective clothing) didn't mean it was still safe to go in there. If it had been, Spock could have just donned a spare suit, and went to work as well, but it was understood that going in there, suit or not, would be deadly at that point. It's not that complicated to get the context from that scene.

 

[XCV330]

Another possibility those radiation suits were custom made and Spock couldn't have simply put one on.

Why would you make clothing necessary to live and save people, in an emergency situation that only one person could wear? I mean, I get that this is Starfleet, home of exploding computer terminals and warp core ejectors that never actually eject, but Jesus..

 

[Timo]

I'm probably just thick-headed, but I can't understand what scenario you are proposing for Scotty getting exposed to radiation.

The radiation is in a sealed chamber. Operating the door of the chamber like Spock does won't and doesn't yet "flood" Main Engineering (even if McCoy's expected method of extracting the dying Spock for some reason would) or any other compartment.

Radiation outside the chamber is already doubly precluded: McCoy is in shirtsleeves and doesn't have a worry in the world, and Scotty seems to think no flooding has happened yet.

So... Why would Scotty be exposed to radiation within that chamber?

Repairing the bit that needs to be repaired involves opening a lid (which apparently will result in the first stage of the flooding, that is, preclude any further entry, such as for taking out the dying Spock and helping him). Scotty has not opened that lid, because there is no flooding yet. So what did he putatively go into that chamber for? And even if there's an answer to that, why did he attempt something he could not hope to achieve?

This is a clear case of the writers writing stupid things. We can choose between ignoring the stupidity, and thinking around it. I'm choosing the latter, as I see no shortage of ways in which the heroic engineer could work himself to well-timed exhaustion and thus let Spock save the day; believing in those ways would not diminish the movie in any fashion. I further feel the "radiation" version would diminish the movie, by making Scotty less heroic and professional than need be, but that's not as significant as the aspect of the original writing being clueless without extra rationalization/interpretation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Smellmet]

I'm probably just thick-headed, but I can't understand what scenario you are proposing for Scotty getting exposed to radiation.

The radiation is in a sealed chamber. Operating the door of the chamber like Spock does won't and doesn't yet "flood" Main Engineering (even if McCoy's expected method of extracting the dying Spock for some reason would) or any other compartment.

Radiation outside the chamber is already doubly precluded: McCoy is in shirtsleeves and doesn't have a worry in the world, and Scotty seems to think no flooding has happened yet.

So... Why would Scotty be exposed to radiation within that chamber?

Repairing the bit that needs to be repaired involves opening a lid (which apparently will result in the first stage of the flooding, that is, preclude any further entry, such as for taking out the dying Spock and helping him). Scotty has not opened that lid, because there is no flooding yet. So what did he putatively go into that chamber for? And even if there's an answer to that, why did he attempt something he could not hope to achieve?

This is a clear case of the writers writing stupid things. We can choose between ignoring the stupidity, and thinking around it. I'm choosing the latter, as I see no shortage of ways in which the heroic engineer could work himself to well-timed exhaustion and thus let Spock save the day; believing in those ways would not diminish the movie in any fashion. I further feel the "radiation" version would diminish the movie, by making Scotty less heroic and professional than need be, but that's not as significant as the aspect of the original writing being clueless without extra rationalization/interpretation.

Timo Saloniemi

You are just over thinking it as usual. All we need to know is that Scotty has been exposed to radiation and is unable to function. How he got exposed is irrelevant. It could have happened at somewhere else in engineering not seen on screen, it just doesn't matter. The scene as presented is fine.

 

[Timo]

Dramatically, it isn't. I mean, yes, it is dramatically fine, splendid, unforgettable - except for the idea that Scotty would be succumbing to the same radiation that would later claim Spock's life.

That is, it's by thinking that it is the same radiation that we run into problems that make Scotty seem silly, inefficient or otherwise a lesser hero than Spock, even though the very purpose of the scene is to give Scotty a heroic "out".

"Other radiation", decompression, starship phaser near-hits or too many missed sandwiches are all fine excuses, logically. But perhaps sandwiches aren't dramatic enough.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[STEPhon IT]

Why would you make clothing necessary to live and save people, in an emergency situation that only one person could wear? I mean, I get that this is Starfleet, home of exploding computer terminals and warp core ejectors that never actually eject, but Jesus..

That was Nick Meyer's and Harve Bennett's universe and not in the practical world of Gene Roddenberry's Star Trek, I'm grasping for a reason why Spock couldn't simply put on a engineering outfit and work on the chamber. Hack and shacking scripts and movies are not a good idea for comprehensive storytelling.