Question about Trip's death

[angie]

Perhaps the wink , which was lame, was a poor acting choice? It wasn't a great finale but the death was not out of character for Trip who was an impulsive guy. And the whole ep was all about Trip which to me was kind of awful but nothing to compare to the whining which has been present since the first rumors were leaked!

 

[cooleddie74]

Ugh. Don't remind me of Trip's crap death.

As imperfect as "The Good That Men Do" was as a post-ENT follow up novel it was infinitely better than the mess that was the final episode. Trip's death had such an anticlimactic, bird-flipping feel to it that its a wonder there weren't a collection of protestors at the gates of Paramount Studios JUST for it. Arguably the lamest death in TREK since Tasha Yar got bitch-slapped by the Scooby Doo Tar Monster.

 

[Sci]

What always bothered me about Trip's death was how dramatically arbitrary it seemed. Enterprise had been boarded before; Trip had been captured before; there were MACOs and a security team that were almost certainly on their way. And yet, Trip is unable to think of any other way to thwart the bad guys than blowing himself up? It's not particularly intuitive, this notion that he's gotten out of worse scraps without resorting to kamazake techniques but must resort to self-sacrifice now.

 

[angie]

Time had passed,Ent was on it's way to the graveyard, Starfleet had grown and there were many more engineers who had defied the laws of physics by this point. We never saw much proof on screen that Trip grew as a character so I imagine he was still impulsive and loyal which is what we saw in his death.Some people are that way others grow and lose their lovable qualities.

 

[commodore64]

I don't know, Sci. This was the first time Trip really self-sacrificed - a trait we know is captain like. More than any other show, this showed a potential Captain Tucker to me.

 

[Captain X]

What always bothered me about Trip's death was how dramatically arbitrary it seemed. Enterprise had been boarded before; Trip had been captured before; there were MACOs and a security team that were almost certainly on their way. And yet, Trip is unable to think of any other way to thwart the bad guys than blowing himself up? It's not particularly intuitive, this notion that he's gotten out of worse scraps without resorting to kamazake techniques but must resort to self-sacrifice now.

Or how it even remotely applied to Riker's situation, for that matter. Gee, should I tell my captain the hugely top secret thing I know that I apparently already told my ex-girlfriend, or should I keep it to myself since I've been ordered to by an Admiral? Oh, I know, I'll blow myself up, then I won't have to do either one...

 

[cooleddie74]

Here's hoping the Enterprise-D holodeck had been tweaked or misprogrammed by Reg Barclay. That's the only explanation that makes any real sense.

 

[Captain X]

I'd actually say that the whole episode was a holodeck miscreation, made by supporters of Admiral Pressman to discredit Riker. None of the TNG elements of that episode fit either, so that's really the only explanation that would cover everything that was wrong with that episode, which pretty mush was everything.

 

[angie]

The ending was great!

 

[Sci]

I don't know, Sci. This was the first time Trip really self-sacrificed - a trait we know is captain like. More than any other show, this showed a potential Captain Tucker to me.

Well, see, I'm not saying that a willingness to self-sacrifice was bad. What was bad was that the narrative did not definitively establish that self-sacrifice was necessary. It was a situation that in no way seemed so desperate as to require the tactics that Trip adopted; the ship had been boarded many times before without such a thing being necessary. As a result, Trip does not come across as being selfless; he comes across as being suicidal.

What always bothered me about Trip's death was how dramatically arbitrary it seemed. Enterprise had been boarded before; Trip had been captured before; there were MACOs and a security team that were almost certainly on their way. And yet, Trip is unable to think of any other way to thwart the bad guys than blowing himself up? It's not particularly intuitive, this notion that he's gotten out of worse scraps without resorting to kamazake techniques but must resort to self-sacrifice now.

Or how it even remotely applied to Riker's situation, for that matter. Gee, should I tell my captain the hugely top secret thing I know that I apparently already told my ex-girlfriend, or should I keep it to myself since I've been ordered to by an Admiral? Oh, I know, I'll blow myself up, then I won't have to do either one...

Yeah, that was another problem with the episode. The intended theme was the occasional necessity of violating orders in the name of a higher cause -- yet not only did the scenerio Riker viewed not definitively establish that a violation of orders was necessary in the name of a higher cause (by not definitively establishing that Trip had no other options than to violate Archer's orders and sacrifice himself), but the scenerio's link to such a theme, even if the necessity of self-sacrifice had been established, was thoroughly tenuous. The writers should have concoted some sort of political scenerio whereby Archer and Co. had to violate Starfleet orders in the name of some higher cause if they wanted that thematic link.

Here's hoping the Enterprise-D holodeck had been tweaked or misprogrammed by Reg Barclay. That's the only explanation that makes any real sense.

Personally, I'm more than willing to accept the explanation in The Good That Men Do for my personal continuity.

 

[angie]

Often the necessity of self-sacrifice can be picked apart after the fact.The way it was presented there was no time for Trip or any of us viewing to determine that.The novel's explanation for Trip's actions is far more ludicrious than anything in TATV in my opinion.

 

[Captain X]

I'm sure plenty of people were picking it apart as is happened. It just didn't make any sense.

 

[Sci]

Often the necessity of self-sacrifice can be picked apart after the fact.The way it was presented there was no time for Trip or any of us viewing to determine that.

Um, no. We'd seen identical situations before without the necessity of self-sacrifice. Ergo, anyone who had seen prior episodes of Star Trek: Enterprise recognized the decision to have Trip sacrifice himself as being dramatically arbitrary; why was it necessary now but not in episodes like "Silent Enemy?" Well, because the writers wanted Trip to die in a self-sacrificing blaze of glory. There was no reason for it to be necessary in "These Are the Voyages..." but not in previous episodes; thus, the decision to kill Trip was one of the many creative decisions that were, to borrow the words of John Billingsly (Phlox) in describing "These Are the Voyages...," dramatically arbitrary.

The novel's explanation for Trip's actions is far more ludicrious than anything in TATV in my opinion.

And also far more interesting and consistent with previous episodes. And far less arbitrary.

 

[Captain X]

Eh, I actually agree with her on the second part. "Trip the spy" is unconvincing to me, as is his spur of the moment decision to drastically change his life. He might've been more like that in the first couple of seasons, but after Cogenitor, not so much. To me it's just as arbitrary as the reasons he was supposed to have sacrificed himself in TATV to begin with. And that's just one of my beefs with TGTMD. I choose to ignore both the TATV and TGTMD, personally. As far as I'm concerned, TATV was just an attempt by supporters of Admiral Pressman to discredit Commander Riker.

 

[angie]

The novel is only interesting if you are not a fan of Trip as porttrayed on the screen but rather the Trip of fantasies and fanfic. We never saw Trip as the self sacrificing type in fact in one ep as the fire is raging in engineering he is leading the way out the door.This did not prevent me from accepting that Trip for some reason felt compelled to do as he did.Maybe it was the fact his child couldn't be saved and he had the opportunity to help this child. I am no fan of Trip but I could totally believe he would do that.

 

[Captain X]

I don't. We might argee on the novel not being an improvement on TATV, but it's pretty obvious that we have different reasons as to why we feel that way.

 

[commodore64]

Sci: As a result, Trip does not come across as being selfless; he comes across as being suicidal.

I sure didn't see it that way, but I agree with Angie's assessment of Connor's acting. Trip seemed more manic than he needed to be. Archer, in the scene, seemed very together and calm, while Trip seemed panicked. I attributed that to Trip knowing the consequences, but Connor could've just screwed the pooch on that one.

I'm personally for sacrificing -- I like those episodes. Archer, earlier in the episode, saved Trip's life. Not only was Archer important for the future, but Trip owed him waaaay more than just one - so he makes good. I think that's noble and it made me think more highly of Trip.

 

[Pensive]

Here's hoping the Enterprise-D holodeck had been tweaked or misprogrammed by Reg Barclay. That's the only explanation that makes any real sense.

He did it while he was a spider.... I mean, that shit makes sense to spiders!

 

[Anna Yolei]

As someone who does not and never has fangirled over Trip, I thought that his death was completely hollow for many of the reasons already mentioned. This isn't the first time he was there to see Archer's life get endangered, and far form the most dangerous situation he'd been in, but he's jumping in a way that would embarrass a greenhorn ensign. He's supposedly dying for some noble cause...AKA Archer's presence at the Big Ceremony(tm) that we don't even get to fucking see...but it looked like all the work was done and thus his death was completely pointless.

All the masturbatory pats on the back to TNG didn't make this viewing experience any better, and the more times I've watched this episode, the more that pisses me off than anything else. But that's another topic entirely.

 

[bluedana]

In addition to the fact that Trip's response seemed an incredible over-reaction to the situation, it irks me that he would ignore the fact that he and Archer had gotten out of scrapes before, that they'd known each other for nigh on 20 years, and as far back as The Andorian Incident, were able to communicate with sign language and raised eyebrows. His decision and his action just seemed ... arbitrary. He'd been self-sacrificing before (Catwalk and Shuttlepod One come to mind, even First Flight, if you count sacrificing his career), so I have no problem with that, but this was just illogical. I can't bring myself to read TGTMD because I suspect it would just irritate me further, so I actually agree with Captain X (just this once, heh) and ignore both TATV and TGTMD.