Question about the original Matt Jeffies design.

[apepa]

Apepa, I'm a bit sorry I brought up the landing gear issue, as I get it (now) that you were asking about the intended appearance of the triangles, not their intended function. But let's face it, if I didn't bring it up, the result would have been the same!

Well, at least I've learned something new

But yeah, I'm trying to make a decision about how to model it. I always thought it was just a decal, but when I saw the close up shots I realised it looked more like the sort of trompe-l'œil they also used on the inboard of the starboard nacelle. I could either recreate the paint job or actually create an inset into the geometry, but I'd much rather the latter option, as having more corners to catch reflections and shadows almost always adds to the perceived realism of a CG object.

 

[apepa]

Jefferies original intent was for the surface to be smooth.

http://forgottentrek.com/designing-the-first-enterprise/



https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/matt-jefferies-and-the-tos-enterprise.269635/

I think he kind of broke his own logic in that case by placing the main command and control room in the most exposed part of the ship, complete with a panoramic sunroof!

 

[FormerLurker]

The port triangle, like everything gauche and sinister on this model, is visibly underdone.

You do realize, I hope, that sinister is literally the Latin word for "left". It is gauche in its faded appearance, but as it's the port side, sinister goes without saying.

 

[GNDN18]

You do realize, I hope, that sinister is literally the Latin word for "left". It is gauche in its faded appearance, but as it's the port side, sinister goes without saying.

Yep.

 

[Maurice]

I think he kind of broke his own logic in that case by placing the main command and control room in the most exposed part of the ship, complete with a panoramic sunroof!

It's not a sunroof. That shot's just a transition to show you where the room is. In the 2nd pilot we see the ceiling and it ain't seethru.

 

[GNDN18]

It's not a sunroof. That shot's just a transition to show you where the room is. In the 2nd pilot we see the ceiling and it ain't seethru.

A sunroof would’ve been bitchin!

 

[apepa]

It's not a sunroof. That shot's just a transition to show you where the room is. In the 2nd pilot we see the ceiling and it ain't seethru.

My point stands about the position of the bridge though. If it were my choice it would be located in the centre of the saucer, as far away from danger as possible.

 

[GNDN18]

My point stands about the position of the bridge though. If it were my choice it would be located in the centre of the saucer, as far away from danger as possible.

Jefferies’ design sensibilities had to give way to Roddenberry’s production sense. GR wanted the main set to be easily identified by the audience, so placing the bridge on top was almost a requirement. This is conjecture on my part, but I’d welcome some authority for it.

For instance, take the placement of the turbolift shaft on the model versus its placement on the set. The offset gives more dramatic possibilities; the plans versus the film have provided decades of inconclusive arguments.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

My point stands about the position of the bridge though. If it were my choice it would be located in the centre of the saucer, as far away from danger as possible.

Think of it like this: if the shields hold, the most exposed perch will be fine. If the shields fail, an artillery shell will pass through the most protected part of the saucer like it was nothing.

Spaceship hulls aren't like the Bismarck. They have to be lightweight to hold the mass down, and thus save fuel. An extreme example of this would be the Apollo Lunar Module, parts of whose skin were paper-thin. You could (suicidally) poke a pencil through it.

 

[TrickyDickie]

Here's some pretty neat work done based on one of the early Jefferies illustrations:

https://patrickivan.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/s-s-enterprise-google-sketchup/

 

[Shawnster]

For instance, take the placement of the turbolift shaft on the model versus its placement on the set. The offset gives more dramatic possibilities; the plans versus the film have provided decades of inconclusive arguments.

Nothing on screen indicates that exterior structure is the turbo shaft.

Only conjecture.

 

[The Old Mixer]

Nothing onscreen indicates that those things mounted on the pylons that stick out of the secondary hull are warp engines.

 

[GNDN18]

Only conjecture.

“I suppose you fellows remember I did once turn fresh-water sailor for a bit,” that we knew we were fated, before the ebb began to run, to hear about one of Marlow's inconclusive experiences.

 

[apepa]

Think of it like this: if the shields hold, the most exposed perch will be fine. If the shields fail, an artillery shell will pass through the most protected part of the saucer like it was nothing.

Spaceship hulls aren't like the Bismarck. They have to be lightweight to hold the mass down, and thus save fuel. An extreme example of this would be the Apollo Lunar Module, parts of whose skin were paper-thin. You could (suicidally) poke a pencil through it.

Which again clashes with MJ's reasoning why she ship's hull should be smooth.

 

[feek61]

Nothing onscreen indicates that those things mounted on the pylons that stick out of the secondary hull are warp engines.

True, but Jefferies own drawing in TMOST which was done while the show was still in production shows them as the propulsion units with the impulse engines noted separately. That's a pretty strong indication that they are the warp engines.

 

[Shawnster]

Nothing onscreen indicates that those things mounted on the pylons that stick out of the secondary hull are warp engines.

Au contraire mon frère.

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/tos-nacelles.148112/

From "By Any Other Name"
SCOTT: I have opened the control valves to the matter-anti-matter nacelles. On your signal, I will flood them with positive energy.

From "The Apple"
KIRK: Then use your imagination. Tie every ounce of power the ship has into the impulse engines. Discard the warp drive nacelles if you have to, and crack out of there with the main section, but get that ship out of there!

na·celle
nəˈsel/
noun
plural noun: nacelles
a streamlined housing or tank for something on the outside of an aircraft or motor vehicle.
the outer casing of an aircraft engine.

Onscreen the nacelles are called warp nacelles and are stated to be the location of the matter anti matter reaction.

 

[The Old Mixer]

But nobody actually pointed to those thingies on the ship and unambiguously identified them as the warp nacelles. You're expected to infer the connection. Inferring that the little round nub on the back of the bridge module is supposed to be the turbolift shaft is no different.

 

[Shawnster]

But nobody actually pointed to those thingies on the ship and unambiguously identified them as the warp nacelles. You're expected to infer the connection. Inferring that the little round nub on the back of the bridge module is supposed to be the turbolift shaft is no different.

Kirk said warp nacelles. By definition of the word nacelle, they were identified. No connection necessary.

That's like saying no one identified the top section as a saucer. They didn't need to. By definition of the word saucer, we know what it is.

Kirk called them warp nacelles and everyone knew what a nacelle was. I didn't, but that's because I was a kid. I also thought the whole saucer was the bridge.

 

[alensatemybuick1]

So since this thread has gone so far off the rails anyway, I figure I’ll prattle on a bit more about the intended symmetry of the Enterprise. Symmetry can be inferred by the appearance of the 33” model in BOTH its pilot and production configurations. I argue that intended symmetry of the 11 foot model can be inferred as well by the 2 pairs of windows (one pair each on each side) of the saucer edge at the approximate 10 and 2 o’clock positions in its pilot configuration and also from the fact that the window positioning seen on the back saucer edge (approx. 7 o’clock position), neck and seco hull on the port side of the 33 inch model as seen in The Cage closely match the configuration of windows on flipped images of the starboard side of the 11 footer used to depict the port side in WNMHGB.

 

[apepa]

I also thought the whole saucer was the bridge.

That would actually be quite cool to do as a virtual set. Instead of having the the bridge be a small isolated room, you could have a big open area in the middle of the saucer with dozens of work stations like a mission control room.