Question about Spock Prime's character.

[Brutal Strudel]

I could see Spock Prime viewing her like a daughter but lamenting all those times Uhura Prime flirted with him and he just let it slide off his Vulcan facade.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

"It appears, to employ a human idiom, that your counterpart from my universe and I could have made beautiful music together." Which reminds me: It would be cool if we get a scene of NuSpock and N'Uhura doing a Vulcan lyre and vocal duet in a rec room.

 

[borgboy]

"It appears, to employ a human idiom, that your counterpart from my universe and I could have made beautiful music together." Which reminds me: It would be cool if we get a scene of NuSpock and N'Uhura doing a Vulcan lyre and vocal duet in a rec room.

Spock and Uhura doing a duet together would be a really nice touch.

I imagine if nothing else Prime Spock giving young Spock an intrigued but approving arch of his eyebrow when he realized Spock and Uhura were a couple. Nimoy is perfect at conveying depths of emotion with the slightest expression.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I think the writers wanted to shoehorn the conversation in, since it does touch on a central--if facile--comparison of the characters. And since it was TNG, Data gets to be the voice of wisdom. The scene could easily have been written to have Spock note the difference and observe that he wasted valuable years rejecting what Data desired. Spock could have given Data his "blessing," saying that he learned to admire many of the humans in his life and to value the heritage he shares with them.

I'm not a fan of the episode as a whole. This scene was the least of it.

I'm also not a fan of the episode. It's dull, flat and snooze-inducing. It's as gray and bland as the Romulan outfit they dressed Spock in.

 

[xavier]

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Exactly this--and it was a bit of character development (thankfully) carried over into TWoK and the rest of the movies. (Contrast "I have been and always shall be your friend" with "Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed" from "The Naked Time.") Except for a brief relapse into total Vulcan non-emotionality in TVH, he remained this way through all the movies. In TFF and TUC, we see emotional outbursts--in TUC, Spock tells Valeris to go beyond logic and into faith.

If anything, it was TNG's "Re-Unification" that muddied the water. Data talks to Spock about the contrasts in how they view humanity--Data as something to aspire to, Spock as something to reject and surpress. Spock reacts as if he still viewed his human half that way, even though Nimoy plays Spock with a great deal of human inflection--he almost laughs when he repeats Picard's derisive "cowboy diplomacy."

The new Trek movies suggest that Spock will, in the new timeline, reach this internal reproachment sooner than his Prime counter-part, though there will be ugly moments along the way when he succumbs to rage and bloodlust. However, when you think about it, those are as much (if not moreso) Vulcan emotions as they are human.

Indeed, I'd imagine that--with six billion fellow Vulcans gone who had previously aided in emotional control telepathically (implied in "All Our Yesterdays")--the 10,000 survivors are all having a harder time keeping their emotions in check, and that's without taking into account the sheer trauma of the loss.

There's some brilliant insights here.
With young Spock dealing with the loss of his mother and Vulcan, an emotional reconciliation with Sarek, and his relationship with Uhura who pushes him to be more emotional, he is developing and expressing his emotions much sooner than Prime Spock did, and I am really fascinated to find out where his character goes next.

I would like to see more of Sarek and Spock Prime. I do think it would be interesting for Spock Prime to take a wife. I also think some scenes with Uhura and Spock Prime would be really interesting, to see their reactions to each other and get his take on the relationship.

Nu Uhura should be dead by now.

 

[Franklin]

Spock Prime's ego softened as he matured, too. In TOS, he could seem very pleased with himself, sometimes. McCoy knew the emotions were there, and I think what irritated him most about Spock was that Spock was often more smug than truly emotionless. McCoy also knew that Spock was choosing to be emotional when he was brusque or downright rude. To show common courtesy is not necessarily to show emotion. As Spock Prime aged and mellowed, he was more comfortable around humans and had no trouble calling them friends and treating them like real friends.

 

[Dukhat]

One wonders how he got along with his wife? Which has been assumed to be Saavik. (the wife from the wedding Picard was at, since it would be impossible for Picard to have been at the one with T'Pring with both McCoy and Kirk witnessing as well. We assume it was Spock's wedding as Sarek is not known to have had another son that would be around in Picard's time. Even with his third wife.)

Why would his wife be Saavik?

Non-canon though it may be, his wife IS Saavik. (Vulcan's Heart, if you're interested)

If it's non-canon, then his wife isn't Saavik.

 

[Ithekro]

But then there also by default is reason his wife can be Saavik, because canon does not conflict that information. Only that he has or had a wife at some point when Picard could have been at the wedding.

Logic, based on events in Star Trek III and IV, is that Spock's renewed body and Saavik are linked via Pon Farr. Thus if Spock was to go through it again, he would be drawn home to Saavik like he was drawn home to T'Pring the first time. It is the only known we have on the subject, thus it is used as the logical result for Spock's 24th century wedding.

 

[Cyke101]

SPOCK: Logic? ...Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Agree. TOS Spock was a stickler for the whole Logic vs Emotion ordeal, but I'd argue that Original Movie Spock was always a looser characterization than the way Nimoy played him on TV. But in a good way.

Nimoy Spock in the JJ-movies is completely 100% consistent with his Movies 1-6 characterization.

Spock seemed to abandon logic as his sole religion long ago. I guess touching minds with V'Ger, and dying and being reborn can have that kind of effect on a guy.

Agree. TOS Spock was a stickler for the whole Logic vs Emotion ordeal, but I'd argue that Original Movie Spock was always a looser characterization than the way Nimoy played him on TV. But in a good way.

There was a progression away from pure logic which began with TMP, played out through the remaining TOS movies, and carried on into the background of the TNG Sarek stories and culminated with Spock's own appearance in TNG.

Nimoy Spock in the JJ-movies is completely 100% consistent with his Movies 1-6 characterization.

Quite so. His talk with nuSpock at the end of the 2009 movie is sort of a finale or coda to his progression from dogmatically-logical younger Spock to a more relaxed part-Vulcan who's learned to balance that logic against what he's come to understand about humanity's more emotional and intuitive way of doing things.

Spock Prime's ego softened as he matured, too. In TOS, he could seem very pleased with himself, sometimes. McCoy knew the emotions were there, and I think what irritated him most about Spock was that Spock was often more smug than truly emotionless. McCoy also knew that Spock was choosing to be emotional when he was brusque or downright rude. To show common courtesy is not necessarily to show emotion. As Spock Prime aged and mellowed, he was more comfortable around humans and had no trouble calling them friends and treating them like real friends.

Fully agreed on these points. I have a hard time picturing TOS Spock as an underground diplomat in Unification or as someone potentially breaking some form of the Prime Directive in ST09, but thankfully we have the TOS Movie Spock to bridge that supposed gap. That Spock is a more experienced, wiser Spock, who's already built up quite a reputation for himself (he is, for example, a major catalyst for the plot of TUC, based on his standing). He's the exception and stands out because of it. Emotion and logic aren't mutually exclusive. Indeed, I think one of his more memorable scenes was how he expressed his disappointment in Valeris, and then angrily knocked the phaser out of her hand with one single swipe.

 

[borgboy]

Exactly this--and it was a bit of character development (thankfully) carried over into TWoK and the rest of the movies. (Contrast "I have been and always shall be your friend" with "Jim, when I feel friendship for you, I'm ashamed" from "The Naked Time.") Except for a brief relapse into total Vulcan non-emotionality in TVH, he remained this way through all the movies. In TFF and TUC, we see emotional outbursts--in TUC, Spock tells Valeris to go beyond logic and into faith.

If anything, it was TNG's "Re-Unification" that muddied the water. Data talks to Spock about the contrasts in how they view humanity--Data as something to aspire to, Spock as something to reject and surpress. Spock reacts as if he still viewed his human half that way, even though Nimoy plays Spock with a great deal of human inflection--he almost laughs when he repeats Picard's derisive "cowboy diplomacy."

The new Trek movies suggest that Spock will, in the new timeline, reach this internal reproachment sooner than his Prime counter-part, though there will be ugly moments along the way when he succumbs to rage and bloodlust. However, when you think about it, those are as much (if not moreso) Vulcan emotions as they are human.

Indeed, I'd imagine that--with six billion fellow Vulcans gone who had previously aided in emotional control telepathically (implied in "All Our Yesterdays")--the 10,000 survivors are all having a harder time keeping their emotions in check, and that's without taking into account the sheer trauma of the loss.

There's some brilliant insights here.
With young Spock dealing with the loss of his mother and Vulcan, an emotional reconciliation with Sarek, and his relationship with Uhura who pushes him to be more emotional, he is developing and expressing his emotions much sooner than Prime Spock did, and I am really fascinated to find out where his character goes next.

I would like to see more of Sarek and Spock Prime. I do think it would be interesting for Spock Prime to take a wife. I also think some scenes with Uhura and Spock Prime would be really interesting, to see their reactions to each other and get his take on the relationship.

Nu Uhura should be dead by now.

Why should Nu Uhura be dead?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Why would his wife be Saavik?

Non-canon though it may be, his wife IS Saavik. (Vulcan's Heart, if you're interested)

If it's non-canon, then his wife isn't Saavik.

Effectively she is, since it's not like we'll ever see either character again onscreen.

 

[xavier]

There's some brilliant insights here.
With young Spock dealing with the loss of his mother and Vulcan, an emotional reconciliation with Sarek, and his relationship with Uhura who pushes him to be more emotional, he is developing and expressing his emotions much sooner than Prime Spock did, and I am really fascinated to find out where his character goes next.

I would like to see more of Sarek and Spock Prime. I do think it would be interesting for Spock Prime to take a wife. I also think some scenes with Uhura and Spock Prime would be really interesting, to see their reactions to each other and get his take on the relationship.

Nu Uhura should be dead by now.

Why should Nu Uhura be dead?

Spock Prime is like 129 years of age. Uhura is human. she will not live up to 129 years of age. All tos characters in canon should be dead by now. Vulcans have a longer lifespan than humans.

 

[F. King Daniel]

People live longer in the future. IIRC, 140 is the average age according to DS9. Kirk knew Archer in ST'09 and Data met McCoy in "Encounter at Farpoint". Uhura and Sulu are alive in the DS9 era in the novelverse.

Chekov lives in 2386 in the Star Trek: Renegades fan film.
[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgRJWBB12GA[/YT]

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The age of 100 is considered the prime of life in Trek's time. So 140 years of age would be equivalent to, say, the early to mid 70's. Uhura could just as easily live that long as McCoy did.

And it seems that Jonathan Archer also lives to at least 140, as he was present when both timelines' versions of the NCC-1701 were launched.

 

[Dukhat]

Non-canon though it may be, his wife IS Saavik. (Vulcan's Heart, if you're interested)

If it's non-canon, then his wife isn't Saavik.

Effectively she is, since it's not like we'll ever see either character again onscreen.

Can you prove that she is?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Onscreenly speaking, we have no idea who Spock married. So if you're going strictly by canon, we will NEVER find out.

The only answer ever given in the novels is in Vulcan's Heart, where it's Saavik.

And as I said, we will never see anything onscreen that contradicts this, since there will be no more prime timeline shows or films. So while not "technically" official, it is "effectively" so.

 

[Cyke101]

People live longer in the future. IIRC, 140 is the average age according to DS9. Kirk knew Archer in ST'09 and Data met McCoy in "Encounter at Farpoint".

Scotty knew Archer, wasn't it?

Also, to further your point, McCoy was 137 when he met Data, so it's well within reason that Uhura would live past 129.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

People live longer in the future. IIRC, 140 is the average age according to DS9. Kirk knew Archer in ST'09 and Data met McCoy in "Encounter at Farpoint".

Scotty knew Archer, wasn't it?

Yeah, that's how Scotty got in trouble - lost one of Archer's dogs while working on a transporter.

 

[borgboy]

The wonderful Crucible trilogy does have Spock marrying a human woman, but the Crucible trilogy is in a separate continuity from the mainstream Trek Lit continuity. Still, it's worth pointing out as an alternate wife for Spock. They both count as equally valid universes imo. So I guess in my mind there's a version of Spock in the JJ movies that was married to a human woman, and a version that married Saavik.

 

[BillJ]

The wonderful Crucible trilogy does have Spock marrying a human woman, but the Crucible trilogy is in a separate continuity from the mainstream Trek Lit continuity. Still, it's worth pointing out as an alternate wife for Spock. They both count as equally valid universes imo. So I guess in my mind there's a version of Spock in the JJ movies that was married to a human woman, and a version that married Saavik.

Likely there are timelines where Spock married a guy, timelines where he married no one and timelines where there is no Spock at all.

But I never liked the idea that Spock married one of his students.