Provisional Crewmembers
- Thread starter Dingo
- Start date
In the post Endgame novels they continue in starfleet. B'Elanna and Chakotay are still starfleet officers
LOL the aloha quadrant. 
I know that was unintentional but since the recent caption contest had them all in Hawaiian shirts...
After the pathfinder project made contact with Voyager, perhaps the pre-hearing investigations would begin in their absence using information they transmitted back. It would save time for everyone.
I know that was unintentional but since the recent caption contest had them all in Hawaiian shirts...After the pathfinder project made contact with Voyager, perhaps the pre-hearing investigations would begin in their absence using information they transmitted back. It would save time for everyone.
@Dingo, Aloha quadrant? You mean Alpha Quadrant, right? I don't think that the DQ was as peaceful and idyllic as the Hawaiian Island! 
About the Maquis crew, I’d like to know why people are so sure that the remaining 12 former members shoud be totally pardonned & offered to be re-admitted to Starfleet? I know that the authors of non-canon Voyager’s novels based their stories on this theory to pursue the adventure of Voyager BUT on the other side, there is Renegades, which is worth what it is worth, where Cordero aka Chakotay (& Chaffee aka Icheb), lived far from Starfleet,as rebels. So, I guess that it is a
positioning issue.
For my part, I'm shared: the pardon could be given for their record of service on board during the journey BUT, I don’t think they should be allowed to return as easily to Starfleet & still less, to collect their former ranks, when they had a commission of course, for the following reasons:
1) Insofar as all RESIGNED their commissions in the Federation to join the Maquis. I’d like to insist on the fact that Starfleet is an official and respected military organisation where you have to show your credentials to get in and learn to maintain some respectability throughout career, NOT a charitable association or a sect, waiting to welcome with open arms the lost sheep, no matter where they come from or/and the good deeds committed lately (by the way, Chakotay & his crew had every interest in cooperating with Janeway if he hoped that he and his crew be safe, live long and eventually come home in the end). The fact that they managed to melt away into the Starfleet crew, was just a bonus for everyone. And then, if you looked back on the situation of the Val Jean, I don't think that its occupants could have survived, lost in DQ, especially with the Borgs, the Hirogens or worst, the Species 8472, around!)
2) I remind you that the Maquis was a haven for disgraced & outcast people from Starfleet & the Federation like Tom & B’Elena; some others used this organization to seek an outlet for violent tendencies like Suder and to end, there were those who sought revenge for the death of their beloved ones by Cardassians like Chakotay and Dalby. In brief, not really the profile sought by Starfleet, right?! Besides, Starfleet & the Federation made no distinction and considered all Maquis as terrorists, determined to do whatever it takes to survive & reclaim their lands, whether it meets with the Federation approval or not and no matter if their actions were violent. It wouldn’t be fair to all cadets, officers, senior officers & admirals who must be transparent and show clean hands to accept people whose the past would be questionable, among them or take orders from them.
Yes, some of them were maybe good people and/or they trully thought in the rightness of their fight in the Maquis but, the shameful actions they led one time or another, should be entirely assumed too. And honestly, Starfleet isn't there to offer a redemption to ex-Maquis, as if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
They have decided to put themselves back from what's happened on Earth.
3) members like B’Elena Torres, who is still incapable to self-controler emotionally, especially when she is angry or frustrated (despite her solid relationship with Tom which led her to a kind of equilibrium, without forgetting her newly motherhood), would be judged unfit (because of psychologically unstability) to enlist in Starfleet, as brilliant as she is intellectually. I mean that Janeway accepted a lot of protocol breaches & mood swings from B'Elena but only because of the odd situation met by Voyager. As all official military organizations, Starfleet is full of rules, discipline & protocols, etc… .B'Elena has neither the patience nor the inclination to submit to them!
4) what about other members of the Maquis, who had to undergo several years of imprisonment for what they did was what they honestly felt was right? What their reaction might be in seeing that Chakotay and his friends, who were supposed to be ones of their own, are not only celebrated after 7 years lost in the DQ but given “their cake and eat it, to put it colloquially”? Even if the events ordered them to adopt a low profile, they ended to appreciate the fullness of life offered on board, even the most recalcitrants!).
Well, all that to say, alright to see them being pardoned by the Federation but a return to civilian life, seems to me more appropriate. Their varied talents should allow them to easily find a job, don't you think?! And besides, it seemed to me that neither Chakotay, B'Elena, Chell, Dalby etc... were Starfleet in their head and heart, while Janeway & Tuvok definitively were.
(very long post but I wanted to explain my thought - thank you for taking the time to read unitl the end!
)
About the Maquis crew, I’d like to know why people are so sure that the remaining 12 former members shoud be totally pardonned & offered to be re-admitted to Starfleet? I know that the authors of non-canon Voyager’s novels based their stories on this theory to pursue the adventure of Voyager BUT on the other side, there is Renegades, which is worth what it is worth, where Cordero aka Chakotay (& Chaffee aka Icheb), lived far from Starfleet,as rebels. So, I guess that it is a
positioning issue.
For my part, I'm shared: the pardon could be given for their record of service on board during the journey BUT, I don’t think they should be allowed to return as easily to Starfleet & still less, to collect their former ranks, when they had a commission of course, for the following reasons:
1) Insofar as all RESIGNED their commissions in the Federation to join the Maquis. I’d like to insist on the fact that Starfleet is an official and respected military organisation where you have to show your credentials to get in and learn to maintain some respectability throughout career, NOT a charitable association or a sect, waiting to welcome with open arms the lost sheep, no matter where they come from or/and the good deeds committed lately (by the way, Chakotay & his crew had every interest in cooperating with Janeway if he hoped that he and his crew be safe, live long and eventually come home in the end). The fact that they managed to melt away into the Starfleet crew, was just a bonus for everyone. And then, if you looked back on the situation of the Val Jean, I don't think that its occupants could have survived, lost in DQ, especially with the Borgs, the Hirogens or worst, the Species 8472, around!)
2) I remind you that the Maquis was a haven for disgraced & outcast people from Starfleet & the Federation like Tom & B’Elena; some others used this organization to seek an outlet for violent tendencies like Suder and to end, there were those who sought revenge for the death of their beloved ones by Cardassians like Chakotay and Dalby. In brief, not really the profile sought by Starfleet, right?! Besides, Starfleet & the Federation made no distinction and considered all Maquis as terrorists, determined to do whatever it takes to survive & reclaim their lands, whether it meets with the Federation approval or not and no matter if their actions were violent. It wouldn’t be fair to all cadets, officers, senior officers & admirals who must be transparent and show clean hands to accept people whose the past would be questionable, among them or take orders from them.
Yes, some of them were maybe good people and/or they trully thought in the rightness of their fight in the Maquis but, the shameful actions they led one time or another, should be entirely assumed too. And honestly, Starfleet isn't there to offer a redemption to ex-Maquis, as if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
They have decided to put themselves back from what's happened on Earth.
3) members like B’Elena Torres, who is still incapable to self-controler emotionally, especially when she is angry or frustrated (despite her solid relationship with Tom which led her to a kind of equilibrium, without forgetting her newly motherhood), would be judged unfit (because of psychologically unstability) to enlist in Starfleet, as brilliant as she is intellectually. I mean that Janeway accepted a lot of protocol breaches & mood swings from B'Elena but only because of the odd situation met by Voyager. As all official military organizations, Starfleet is full of rules, discipline & protocols, etc… .B'Elena has neither the patience nor the inclination to submit to them!
4) what about other members of the Maquis, who had to undergo several years of imprisonment for what they did was what they honestly felt was right? What their reaction might be in seeing that Chakotay and his friends, who were supposed to be ones of their own, are not only celebrated after 7 years lost in the DQ but given “their cake and eat it, to put it colloquially”? Even if the events ordered them to adopt a low profile, they ended to appreciate the fullness of life offered on board, even the most recalcitrants!).
Well, all that to say, alright to see them being pardoned by the Federation but a return to civilian life, seems to me more appropriate. Their varied talents should allow them to easily find a job, don't you think?! And besides, it seemed to me that neither Chakotay, B'Elena, Chell, Dalby etc... were Starfleet in their head and heart, while Janeway & Tuvok definitively were.
(very long post but I wanted to explain my thought - thank you for taking the time to read unitl the end!
)
You're surely right and I confess that I had not thought of that possiiblity! In any case, neither Janeway for Starfleet, or Chakotay for the Maquis or Seven, among all others could avoid to answer the questions on who, when, how, why and where, from a sort of commission of inquiry, whatever is from the Federation, from Starfleet or both, even if personal and official logs had already provided guidance on the situations met and actions operated during their journey of 7 years.
See my other post, the remaining maquies are 31 people on Voyager, 36 maquies from the beginning.
Season 6 episode 24.
Janeway did nothing to commute their as yet unlevied sentences or offer amnesty, or pardons without trial.
Chakotay on the other hand did not think that he had done anything wrong, so was not going to push for a trial on Voyager or back when he got to the Federation either, even if there was a guarantee of complete exoneration from Judge Janeway.
Janeway did nothing to commute their as yet unlevied sentences or offer amnesty, or pardons without trial.
Chakotay on the other hand did not think that he had done anything wrong, so was not going to push for a trial on Voyager or back when he got to the Federation either, even if there was a guarantee of complete exoneration from Judge Janeway.
In any case, Janeway is NOT in position to offer amnesty or pardon to Chakotay & his former crew. Or even request that a decision about them be taken quickly. She is only a Starfleet Captain*. It's the role of those who lead the Federation to take the decision to offer amnesty ...or not . And as for the Doctor's
fight for his rights, the question about the fate of the Maquis will be only debated once back on Earth (where the political situation = situation of peace or war & the mood of the leaders could weigh in the decision making ->
will they be willing to forgive the betrayal?). But meanwhile the return of Voyager, Starfleet has no other choice than to '"support" Janeway's decision to include the Maquis in the Starfleet crew.
The only thing that Janeway could (and will do) after return, is to speak in their favor, in the hope that her new position of heroin will allow her to be heard.
* (besides, she might have to answer to Admirals for having clearly violated her order to arrest Chakotay & his friends and to sympathize with them. Luckily she did not "sleep with the ennemy", otherwise, she would have been court-martialed just for this reason and be jailed or fired).
Janeway is a an Ambassador, judge and police woman. Note the swift trial that went about inside her head for Suder, or how she long deliberated over Tuvix and Quinn. If Kathryn can sentence a man to house arrest for murder, or execute a man for being creepy looking, then she can sentence 20 something people to community service for terrorism, not that Chakotay would agree that he was a terrorist.
Janeway can declare war on behalf of the Federation, and the slack back home usually has to follow through. I assume it's like in the present that if a Judiciary is upended, then every decision that they have ever made is potentially upended if her authority to speak for the Federation is removed retroactively.
Khan killed MILLIONS... His punishment for megadeath and attempted grandtheft starship was the title to a pretty world to call his own.
It's amazing that with 70 years to get home, that Janeway didn't set up a JAG office and local elections for a civilian government to compliment her military governance... Which would just be more Battlestar Galactica, so we know that's a great idea.
Janeway can declare war on behalf of the Federation, and the slack back home usually has to follow through. I assume it's like in the present that if a Judiciary is upended, then every decision that they have ever made is potentially upended if her authority to speak for the Federation is removed retroactively.
Khan killed MILLIONS... His punishment for megadeath and attempted grandtheft starship was the title to a pretty world to call his own.
It's amazing that with 70 years to get home, that Janeway didn't set up a JAG office and local elections for a civilian government to compliment her military governance... Which would just be more Battlestar Galactica, so we know that's a great idea.
I assume that for the duration of Voyager's stay in the AQ, the maquis's status was suspended in favor of accepting a temporary commission as serving officers - i.e. "provisional"; pending trial back on earth - which would take their service on Voyager into account when determining sentences.
He may do that if he felt he was needed, otherwise, he's a career officer. He probably spent 15 years in SF, then left to help his colony for 2 years, then seven more years back on Voyager. It's his life.
There was a specific kill order to kill Chakotay.
Janeway was sent on a mission to kill everyone in his cell because they were terrorists, picking at the Cardassion Union, until there was probably all out war between Cardassia and the Federation.
Dragging every Maquis to Prison was the only way to preserve the Peace.
Cardassia is not that Cardassia anymore.
Yet how ever, they still fired on Federation ships that got in their way, and Federation citizens probably died.
Janeway was sent on a mission to kill everyone in his cell because they were terrorists, picking at the Cardassion Union, until there was probably all out war between Cardassia and the Federation.
Dragging every Maquis to Prison was the only way to preserve the Peace.
Cardassia is not that Cardassia anymore.
Yet how ever, they still fired on Federation ships that got in their way, and Federation citizens probably died.
If it wasn't a crime to be a Maquis, then why was Tom serving a sentence in the NZ prison before the series premiere?
It was a crime to be a Maquis. The federation considered them outlaws. They were going against the federation cardassian treaty. Chakotay said the maquis that weren't killed by the dominion went to jail.
ABSOLUTELY.
Chakotay is the kind of man who would like to be where he would be needed (to help re-builduing a new home for his people, in reviving the traditions). And IF he decided to stay on Earth, I would rather see him teaching Anthropology in any institute. Starfleet would be an old story.
Living space on Earth is at a premium... In a world with no money?
As a civilian, with his history as a terrorist, I don't think he could get a visa to live on or even visit Earth... And if he some how hornswoggles weekend pass, 9 shady dudes are going to follow him constantly to make sure that Chakotay has not reverted to type.
As a civilian, with his history as a terrorist, I don't think he could get a visa to live on or even visit Earth... And if he some how hornswoggles weekend pass, 9 shady dudes are going to follow him constantly to make sure that Chakotay has not reverted to type.
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