Programmable Matter

[Deks]

I think Data was talking about the M/A-M reactor system is generating 12.75 EW per second, (But the Alarm cut him off).

There's no mention of how much energy the Warp Nacelles consume at what speed, that's not stated anywhere.

There's no mention of Power output per Nacelle, and Nacelle generally don't create power, they consume it.
It's the M/A-M reactor system that makes power and the Nacelles consumer power when in use at FTL/Warp Speeds anyways.

No mention of conversion from ___ grams of Anti-Matter Collided to Energy ouput.

There's no mention if 12.75 EW per second is the Minimum/Maximum/Average power output of the Enterprise-D's reactor.

The only data I can gleam from that statement is that at that moment, the Enterprise-D's M/A-M reactor could generate that much power in one second.

That's what I got from the dialogue too.
That the Warp core itself was generating 12.7 Exawatts per second at the time... that's in the state that's associated with 'regular' ship functions while not at warp.

As for the Warp nacelles... the nacelles (as far as I know) only generate the Warp field around the ship (hence the presence of Warp coils in the nacelles) and consume energy produced in the Warp core.

How much energy each nacelle consumes WHILE at warp is not stated (as you said)...
Since Data's statement said 'we are PRESENTLY GENERATING...', this could imply the amount of energy in the core can increase while Warp drive is in use.. or, it could be the maximum of what the core is capable of - but that would seem rather wasteful, because it would be far more efficient to have the core produce less energy while say Warp drive is not in use... similar to how a computer would draw less power while its not being stressed.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

That the Warp core itself was generating 12.7 Exawatts per second at the time... that's in the state that's associated with 'regular' ship functions while not at warp.

Doesn't matter if the ship is "At Warp".

The system could still generate that much power or more, and we all know the ship has batteries stored all over the place, who knows what needed recharging at that time.

 

[Ronald Held]

I presume no Canon values of the efficiency of the Dilithium chamber. As to what percentage of the energy generated by the warp core gets into the warp plasma? Efficiency of the warp coils is another issue.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I presume no Canon values of the efficiency of the Dilithium chamber. As to what percentage of the energy generated by the warp core gets into the warp plasma? Efficiency of the warp coils is another issue.

According to the science that we know, the Matter/Anti-Matter reaction is a 100% efficient.
Assuming that Electro Plasma has greater than or equivalent efficiency as Copper Wire for transmitting Electricity
I don't think Humanity would choose a Electricity / Energy Transfer medium that is worse than copper wiring of appropriate gauge.

The Soliton Wave had a 98% energy efficient transfer to the Soliton Wave Rider drone for going to Warp.

Although the test began promisingly, displaying a 98% energy transfer efficiency of the soliton wave that was 450% more efficient than the Enterprise's own warp engines, the wave unexpectedly destabilized and manifested a subspace distortion that destroyed the test ship and damaged the Enterprise. Dr. Ja'Dar believed that a transient power imbalance was responsible.

That 450% more efficient then the Enterprise-D's own Warp engine has lead me to calculate that the Enterprise-D's Warp Engines are 21.778% efficient at converting the massive amounts of Electro Plasma to Warp Field energy to propel the vessel at FTL.

Basically, by the 24th century, the Twin Warp Nacelles needs more efficient designs to impart the Warp Fields.

21.778% is pitiful. But not dying because of a random subspace distrotion in the Soliton Wave blew up my StarShip would be preferable. So despite using old fashioned Warp Drive, not dying is a good feature, despite being inefficient. So Riding the Soliton Wave is "Very Dangerous" despite being super efficient as a form of going to Warp Speeds.

The Enterprise subsequently found that the wave was accelerating towards Lemma II, gaining energy in the process. It was estimated that by the time the wave arrived it would contain enough energy to destroy most of the planet. The wave had grown too powerful for the Lemma II facility to dissipate, but the Enterprise was able to disrupt the wave by detonating five photon torpedoes directly in front of it. (TNG: "New Ground")

The Soliton Wave could also be a Planet destroying weapon given that it could potentially gain energy as it travels and hits a planet like a FTL Tsunami.

So there's that danger/risk when using Soliton Waves.

I'm sure somebody will figure out a way to use Soliton Waves safely for civilian Space Travel eventually and not endanger planets and yourself by riding in the Soliton Wave =D.

 

[Paul Weaver]

People don’t seem to understand that “watts per second” is not a unit of power, it’s a unit of rate of change of power. Watts is literally Joules per second.

it would be like Paris telling Earheart they could fly at “4 million mph per second”

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

People don’t seem to understand that “watts per second” is not a unit of power, it’s a unit of rate of change of power. Watts is literally Joules per second.

it would be like Paris telling Earheart they could fly at “4 million mph per second”

“4 million mph per second”, that would be acceleration if that were the case.

But that's not what Tom Paris stated to Earheart.

 

[Paul Weaver]

“4 million mph per second”, that would be acceleration if that were the case.

But that's not what Tom Paris stated to Earheart.

Precisely, the rate of change of speed, hence back to the point two pages ago

That's a unit of rate of change of power generation, not the generation itself

Had he said "4 million miles per hour per second", then he would have been bullshitting - she asked how fast, not its maximum acceleration. Had Data said "12 million watts per second", he would have been bullshitting. "12.75 Billion GigaWatts" or "12.75 Billion GigaJoules per second" would have been a reasonable answer to the question (albeit one answering what the power usage was, not how much energy was being harnessed), but "12.75 Billion GigaWatts per XXX" would only make sense if the missing word was unitless (e.g per nacelle, per shuttlecraft, per engineer, to answer power) or hertz (e.g per megahertz, to answer energy), or throwing in a subspace unit (milliCochranes etc) which can do all sorts of wonders.

As we don't know what Data was going to say (and if he was saying "12 billiion gigajoules per second per second as in the script that makes no sense), and thus it can't be used to judge the power being generated at that time by the Enterprise D (Watts) or the energy being harnessed in the intermix chamber (measured in Joules).

Which returns to how much energy is used for programmable matter and where it comes from. We know that Federation Science does things with hypothetical physics, like gravitons, tachyons, chronitons, subspace, it's entirely logical that something like zero point energy could be a possibility. Maybe they pull the power from gravitational waves that interact with rotating black holes, maybe they use the same source of energy that Q taps into to do his tricks.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Had he said "4 million miles per hour per second", then he would have been bullshitting - she asked how fast, not its maximum acceleration. Had Data said "12 million watts per second", he would have been bullshitting. "12.75 Billion GigaWatts" or "12.75 Billion GigaJoules per second" would have been a reasonable answer to the question (albeit one answering what the power usage was, not how much energy was being harnessed), but "12.75 Billion GigaWatts per XXX" would only make sense if the missing word was unitless (e.g per nacelle, per shuttlecraft, per engineer, to answer power) or hertz (e.g per megahertz, to answer energy), or throwing in a subspace unit (milliCochranes etc) which can do all sorts of wonders.

As we don't know what Data was going to say (and if he was saying "12 billiion gigajoules per second per second as in the script that makes no sense), and thus it can't be used to judge the power being generated at that time by the Enterprise D (Watts) or the energy being harnessed in the intermix chamber (measured in Joules).

Then the edited/screen final version was correct. 12.75 EW or 12.75 Billion GigaWatts.

GigaWatts are usually what power plants are measured with in the present day.
This unit is often used for large power plants or power grids.
For example, by the end of 2010, power shortages in China's Shanxi province were expected to increase to 5–6 GW and the installed capacity of wind power in Germany was 25.8 GW. The largest unit (out of four) of the Belgian Doel Nuclear Power Station has a peak output of 1.04 GW. HVDC converters have been built with power ratings of up to 2 GW.

A watt (abbreviation W) was a unit of power equal to one joule per second.

Which returns to how much energy is used for programmable matter and where it comes from. We know that Federation Science does things with hypothetical physics, like gravitons, tachyons, chronitons, subspace, it's entirely logical that something like zero point energy could be a possibility. Maybe they pull the power from gravitational waves that interact with rotating black holes, maybe they use the same source of energy that Q taps into to do his tricks.

It could be, but if it was me, I'd say stick in a tiny coin shaped battery that uses battery materials of that era and call it a day.

Programmable matter only really needs two things.
A Power Source (Fixed to a structure), or a portable source of power (Battery).
A CPU / Brain (Could be fixed to the structure), or a portable module (Tiny PC's are thing).

Using fancy particles like Tachyons, Chronitons or accessing subspace feels like it would need larger and more complicated machines to achieve the same task.

If you're pulling power from a rotating black hole, isn't that similar to the AQS (Artificial Quantum Singularity) reactor that the romulan uses?

And that takes ALOT of big & heavy machinery to accomplish.

It's not nearly as portable as something that can fit in your pocket.

 

[Ronald Held]

Do nanocubes and PM conserve mass?

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Do nanocubes and PM conserve mass?

In my head canon, we don't violate the known laws of physics if possible.

So my Programmable Matter WILL conserve mass and not be as "All Powerful" as depicted in DISCO.

I'll also have to explain away the weird usage of Programmable Matter in DISCO as well.

 

[publiusr]

Protomatter finally stabilized…mini Genesis wave tech I guess.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Protomatter finally stabilized…mini Genesis wave tech I guess.

That sounds WAY TOO OP.

 

[Paul Weaver]

Do nanocubes and PM conserve mass?

Probably the same way Changelings can hide their mass.

 

[LazyReader]

To program matter for comparisons sake, The human body is composed of 100 trillion cells, nano bots would be even smaller, requiring even to make a quarter inch thick layer over a 3 meter by one meter console would consist of 200 Trillion or more. Organizing trillions of tiny machines into a set form on command requires computer program with memory devoted exclusively to where each machine is supposed to go, that means dictating a least 20 Trillion nano machines, means a minimum of 200 trillion interpreted pieces of dedicated information (200 terabytes), each machine has to have a memory capacity not only to know where to go, but how to interact and what it’s supposed to do, how to configure and interpret data sent to it, send and receive energy, harden, or un-harden and reshape itself, replace damaged components, not to mention conform to it’s user, provide all the essential capacities and still be durable enough to protect and not be squished. That requires gigabytes of data per nano-machine, Or over 250 Sextillion bytes or the storage capacity. Literally every computer ever made throughout history. Each machine would have to have an interconnecting power supply chain (Think of your christmas tree lights) And any separation the machines would die without power. And every nano machine has the potential to become a specific part

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

To program matter for comparisons sake, The human body is composed of 100 trillion cells, nano bots would be even smaller, requiring even to make a quarter inch thick layer over a 3 meter by one meter console would consist of 200 Trillion or more. Organizing trillions of tiny machines into a set form on command requires computer program with memory devoted exclusively to where each machine is supposed to go, that means dictating a least 20 Trillion nano machines, means a minimum of 200 trillion interpreted pieces of dedicated information (200 terabytes), each machine has to have a memory capacity not only to know where to go, but how to interact and what it’s supposed to do, how to configure and interpret data sent to it, send and receive energy, harden, or un-harden and reshape itself, replace damaged components, not to mention conform to it’s user, provide all the essential capacities and still be durable enough to protect and not be squished. That requires gigabytes of data per nano-machine, Or over 250 Sextillion bytes or the storage capacity. Literally every computer ever made throughout history. Each machine would have to have an interconnecting power supply chain (Think of your christmas tree lights) And any separation the machines would die without power. And every nano machine has the potential to become a specific part

When they wrote about Wesley Crusher's Nanites in the TNG episode "Evolution", each of his Nanites had Gigabytes of memory.

Not bad prediction for way back in the day.

As for my Nano-machines or CAtoms in my Head Canon, there needs to be two requirements for any true Programmable Matter cluster.

At least 1x CPS (Core Power Source)
At least 1x CLU (Core Logic Unit)

They don't have to be very large, they can be as small as coins or little blocks in the larger mass of Nano-machines or CAtoms.

But for CAtoms used inside the body, external physical controllers need to be mounted subdermally and ways of generating power from the environment is necessary.

That's why Ultra Low Power computing and power generation is important.

Every single CAtom has basic processing and power generation / storage to perform their programmed functionality.

But for the bigger picture, you need Core sources of Processing and Power Sources.

 

[HappyMcWonderful]

Problem with setting Discovery so far in the future is coming up with with futuristic future-isms. We have a hard enough time making contemporary sci-fi seem sci-fi, technology grows so rapidly these days. What seemed cool and far out back in TNG is part of my phone now and in many cases my phone far eclipses what was shown on the show.

Programmable matter sounds cool but there's no plausible way to make it workable in a Trek-nology sense. It's 1,000 years into a pretend future... probably some mixture of quantum, nanotech, microcomputing and other buzzwords. Sad part is the stuff will probably be commonplace 50 years from now and used in the place of cement... and we'll be LOLing at Discovery's 1,000 year future-tech.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Problem with setting Discovery so far in the future is coming up with with futuristic future-isms. We have a hard enough time making contemporary sci-fi seem sci-fi, technology grows so rapidly these days. What seemed cool and far out back in TNG is part of my phone now and in many cases my phone far eclipses what was shown on the show.

Programmable matter sounds cool but there's no plausible way to make it workable in a Trek-nology sense. It's 1,000 years into a pretend future... probably some mixture of quantum, nanotech, microcomputing and other buzzwords. Sad part is the stuff will probably be commonplace 50 years from now and used in the place of cement... and we'll be LOLing at Discovery's 1,000 year future-tech.

We're a LONG way from Programmable Matter in the way that DISCO portrays it.

 

[HappyMcWonderful]

"It'll be decades if not a century before tablet computers become practical."
(...he sent from his tablet.)

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

"It'll be decades if not a century before tablet computers become practical."
(...he sent from his tablet.)

There's a difference between what's on the cusp of Tomorrow's tech, and what is going to take far longer to get to.

 

[LazyReader]

Problem with ANY SCIENCE FICTION in the future is coming up with with futuristic future-isms. If it's based beyond our current year......whatever technology progress happens to
Star wars is "Fantasy" genre, it just happens to take place in space. Rules are flexible because many things are "Magic"
By contrast Trek has to follow.......prescribed scientific punctuality....Things like subspace, exotic matter, unique material science, and technology. It's hard to obey a strict rule book.

But Trek unknowingly or knowingly got a lot of things ....

tablet PC's

Touch screen controls (for vessel control)

Biometrics

Voice Activation

Individual virtual displays

Head up displays

Solid State memory