Production Values TNG VS DS9

[PorthosShadow]

First off, this is no slight towards TNG because I did find it entertaining but something has always bugged me. DS9 had great production values IE special effects, lots of extras and good lighting. My question is why on TNG were not the same kind or production values applied. For instance in Generations Ten Forward was a busy place with lots of humans and aliens.

To me the way The Enterprise looked in Generations is how it should have looked in the series. I guess what I want to know is did TNG have a smaller budget than DS9 or was it just a matter of logistics. Personally, I hope if TNG ever gets remastered they can fix some of these things, maybe.

 

[RobertScorpio]

First off, this is no slight towards TNG because I did find it entertaining but something has always bugged me. DS9 had great production values IE special effects, lots of extras and good lighting. My question is why on TNG were not the same kind or production values applied. For instance in Generations Ten Forward was a busy place with lots of humans and aliens.

To me the way The Enterprise looked in Generations is how it should have looked in the series. I guess what I want to know is did TNG have a smaller budget than DS9 or was it just a matter of logistics. Personally, I hope if TNG ever gets remastered they can fix some of these things, maybe.

Good question, and I agree. Maybe as the cast got more expensive on TNG they had to cut back. And since DS9 never got as high as ratings, the actor's raises on that show were not as steep.

Rob

 

[Lord Garth]

I can't stand the lighting in GEN. They're too dim on the bridge and 10-Forward looks like it was flooded with yellow.

The bridge layout in and of itself is better in GEN but not with that lighting. And even though it's a smaller set, I like the Astrometrics Lab on VOY better than the one in GEN.

I wouldn't expect 10-Forward to be as full as the Promenade because the crew to civilian ratio would be much different.

They had their heart in the right place in wanting to upgrade the Enterprise-D for the big screen but I think they tried a little too hard.

 

[Start Wreck]

I don't know about the size of the budget for each show (common sense tells me TNG's was bigger, simply because the show was more popular, but maybe that's just hindsight), but I'd imagine the techniques for making things look better, on the same or less money, became much improved over the years. Also DS9 had the benefit of being able to re-use things (prosthetics, props, ships, etc.) that TNG had to make from scratch, so that's always an advantage.

As for lighting and sets, etc., I think that's more of a stylistic choice.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I don't know about the size of the budget for each show (common sense tells me TNG's was bigger, simply because the show was more popular, but maybe that's just hindsight), but I'd imagine the techniques for making things look better, on the same or less money, became much improved over the years. Also DS9 had the benefit of being able to re-use things (prosthetics, props, ships, etc.) that TNG had to make from scratch, so that's always an advantage.

As for lighting and sets, etc., I think that's more of a stylistic choice.

Yep. those are all good points..

Rob

 

[Alrik]

As to the SFX, GGI came into it's own during DS9's run giving it the benefit of more realistic shape shifting and the grand battles that wouldn't have been realistic or cost effective to do during TNG's run.

 

[Trekker4747]

I can't stand the lighting in GEN. They're too dim on the bridge and 10-Forward looks like it was flooded with yellow.

The bridge layout in and of itself is better in GEN but not with that lighting. And even though it's a smaller set, I like the Astrometrics Lab on VOY better than the one in GEN.

I wouldn't expect 10-Forward to be as full as the Promenade because the crew to civilian ratio would be much different.

They had their heart in the right place in wanting to upgrade the Enterprise-D for the big screen but I think they tried a little too hard.

The lighting was terrible in GEN. It was like all of the lights on the ship burned out at once. It looked like the ship did in the series whenever the power was off.

I get that 10-Fwd was flooded in light because it was orbiting a star but it seems to be everyone in the room would be blinded by such a thing.

Over the top, and I disliked the look of the updated bridge. The new stations weren't a big deal but the dramatic lighting change was so much.

As for the production value changes between Generations and DS9, I suppose it has a lot to do with the times they were made in.

 

[SchwEnt]

Speaking as an old timer from way back...

At the time TNG began, no one knew how it would be received. VERY shaky beginnings, in many respects. It was very experimental...again, in a lot of ways.

The whole series could have just been scrapped a dozen eps into it, many people thought it a real possiblility.

So working from that beginning...I guess yeah, perhaps the production wasn't the
all-out blast it could have been (with budgets and technology and so on).

Once the series established itself as a hit, and ST proved it could be successful on TV again, I'm sure the budget and studio opened up for later TNG and then DS9.

DS9 was in a better position from the get-go.
And with the studio being more comfortable with ST series, money would flow.
This would allow better technology for effects and sets, more hiring of casts and production talent, and so on. All leading to perhaps "better production values".

 

[indolover]

I think the lighting in Generations was deliberate, since the writers wanted less focus on the Enterprise and more on other areas. The photography on the Enterprise wasn't even the same, we hardly had the same views of the bridge as in the series.

I think DS9's production budget was larger. The sets for one were far bigger. The promenade and Quark's for one were huge. Ops must have been bigger than the Enterprise-D bridge. In TNG, the main areas shown in all of the series such as the bridge, the crew's quarters, Engineering, Picard's ready room, the observation lounge, the turbolifts and Ten Forward were all very small rooms in reality.

 

[Hober Mallow]

Prior to DS9, TNG's budget was reportedly between $1.2 million and $1.5 million an episode. Paramount spent a whopping $12 million on DS9's "Emissary," and up to $1.9 million an episode afterward. So, yes, DS9's budget was a bit higher, promting some TNG cast to complain.

 

[Lord Garth]

I can't stand the lighting in GEN. They're too dim on the bridge and 10-Forward looks like it was flooded with yellow.

The bridge layout in and of itself is better in GEN but not with that lighting. And even though it's a smaller set, I like the Astrometrics Lab on VOY better than the one in GEN.

I wouldn't expect 10-Forward to be as full as the Promenade because the crew to civilian ratio would be much different.

They had their heart in the right place in wanting to upgrade the Enterprise-D for the big screen but I think they tried a little too hard.

The lighting was terrible in GEN. It was like all of the lights on the ship burned out at once. It looked like the ship did in the series whenever the power was off.

I get that 10-Fwd was flooded in light because it was orbiting a star but it seems to be everyone in the room would be blinded by such a thing.

Over the top, and I disliked the look of the updated bridge. The new stations weren't a big deal but the dramatic lighting change was so much.

As for the production value changes between Generations and DS9, I suppose it has a lot to do with the times they were made in.

Another thing that struck me as odd was how Data's quarters were pitch black. Forget about dim. But somehow how Data and Geordi were perfectly lit and we could see Data's console.

Though, in an unrelated way, I wonder how they managed to pull off getting the the rest of the set to look pitch black while still being able to light exactly what they wanted to focus on. I assume they used very careful portable lighting kits.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I can't stand the lighting in GEN. They're too dim on the bridge and 10-Forward looks like it was flooded with yellow.

The bridge layout in and of itself is better in GEN but not with that lighting. And even though it's a smaller set, I like the Astrometrics Lab on VOY better than the one in GEN.

I wouldn't expect 10-Forward to be as full as the Promenade because the crew to civilian ratio would be much different.

They had their heart in the right place in wanting to upgrade the Enterprise-D for the big screen but I think they tried a little too hard.

The lighting was terrible in GEN. It was like all of the lights on the ship burned out at once. It looked like the ship did in the series whenever the power was off.

I get that 10-Fwd was flooded in light because it was orbiting a star but it seems to be everyone in the room would be blinded by such a thing.

Over the top, and I disliked the look of the updated bridge. The new stations weren't a big deal but the dramatic lighting change was so much.

As for the production value changes between Generations and DS9, I suppose it has a lot to do with the times they were made in.

Another thing that struck me as odd was how Data's quarters were pitch black. Forget about dim. But somehow how Data and Geordi were perfectly lit and we could see Data's console.

Though, in an unrelated way, I wonder how they managed to pull off getting the the rest of the set to look pitch black while still being able to light exactly what they wanted to focus on. I assume they used very careful portable lighting kits.

Part of that Galactic Warming bill that the Federation passed; mandatory lower light levels.

i think, seriously, it was an artistic choice that they just got wrong. But I do like the movie, and thats all that matters to me; lighting or not.

Rob

 

[trentman359]

I love the dramatic lighting in Generations. It worked perfectly for effect. I feel like if TNG was made now as opposed to the early 90s, we would have had more of that dramatic lighting.

 

[clint g]

I love the dramatic lighting in Generations. It worked perfectly for effect. I feel like if TNG was made now as opposed to the early 90s, we would have had more of that dramatic lighting.

My mouth waters when I think about what TNG could have been if it had modern day production values. Imagine what Best of Both Worlds would have looked like if it was made today

 

[PorthosShadow]

I love the dramatic lighting in Generations. It worked perfectly for effect. I feel like if TNG was made now as opposed to the early 90s, we would have had more of that dramatic lighting.

My mouth waters when I think about what TNG could have been if it had modern day production values. Imagine what Best of Both Worlds would have looked like if it was made today

I'm wondering if TNG gets the re-mastered treatment that TOS got could they fix some of these things. I think definately TNG could use some re-mastering but foruntately DS9 still holds up, lol

 

[mattyhugh]

I love the dramatic lighting in Generations. It worked perfectly for effect. I feel like if TNG was made now as opposed to the early 90s, we would have had more of that dramatic lighting.

My mouth waters when I think about what TNG could have been if it had modern day production values. Imagine what Best of Both Worlds would have looked like if it was made today

I'm wondering if TNG gets the re-mastered treatment that TOS got could they fix some of these things. I think definately TNG could use some re-mastering but foruntately DS9 still holds up, lol

It would be a huge undertaking.

 

[Kelthaz]

I love the dramatic lighting in Generations. It worked perfectly for effect. I feel like if TNG was made now as opposed to the early 90s, we would have had more of that dramatic lighting.

My mouth waters when I think about what TNG could have been if it had modern day production values. Imagine what Best of Both Worlds would have looked like if it was made today

The Enterprise-E was good for the films, but I'd hate to watch such a bleak, dark ship for seven years. Darkness (and I'm talking about lighting here) is the big thing now, so I'm glad that TNG was made when it was regardless of the production values.

 

[Start Wreck]

If they made TNG now, it would be full of lens flares.

 

[maneth]

Gods, I hope not.

Admittedly TNG looks a bit cheesy and very 80s, but at least it's not camp like TOS!

 

[Michael]

Admittedly TNG looks a bit cheesy and very 80s, but at least it's not camp like TOS!

What? I guess you haven't seen any early The Next Generation lately, have you? Because it has 'camp' written all over it. I'm not saying that I don't like the campy aspects of The Next Generation. (The opposite is the truth, actually.) But to claim it's not camp makes one look a little foolish, methinks.