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Production Order Group Viewing 2018

THE DEADLY YEARS

I bet this was a fun episode for the actors! An opportunity to ham it up at times, be grave & serious at others. The quality of aging makeup varies enormously though – I think aged McCoy is the most effective and believable.
Underneath all this is an examination of the effects of aging, both physically and especially mentally. As someone who works with the elderly, the loss of memory and self identity is something that concerns me greatly.

Other thoughts:
  • The landing party beam down and then start discussing the parameters of the mission, recent communications etc. Unprofessional conduct and sloppy exposition writing!
  • This is the second of Kirk’s old flames who counts the number of years, months and days since they’ve been apart. Same script editor, maybe?
  • McCoy’s little hand scanner picks up Kirk advanced arthritis in a fraction of a second and he barely looks at it. How does McCoy know?
  • Chekov pushes the foot blocks in sickbay as part of his testing process. Haven’t seen those in use since early Season One!
  • Dr Wallace really has a thing for older guys! Kirk (in defiance of his pop-culture reputation) does not take up her offer for an easy tumble.
  • Those 3 closeups of Kirk thrusting his groin around as he de-ages are a…curious choice. The dramatic reappearance of Kirk on the Bridge is nice, but I think the original script version (Kirk walking down the corridor getting younger) would have worked too.
  • Kirk having dozed off in his chair made me chuckle.
Didn't Stocker order warp 10? How did the Romulans catch up and how are they keeping up to fire on the Enterprise?
Close - it was Starbase 10, at Warp 5.

Commodore Stocker is an interesting take on the traditional “evil admiral” trope: He is very polite, almost deferential to Kirk (calling him “sir” on several occasions) despite outranking him. Then again, his lines about “four very valuable and one almost irreplaceable members of the Starfleet” show his almost fanboyish respect for starships and their commanders “My admiration for Captain Kirk is unbounded. He is a great officer”.
This may stem for a great deal of self awareness on Stocker’s behalf – he himself is woefully inadequate for the task of command and he knows it. However, he also knows that the ship needs to get to Starbase 10 and regulations require that a flag officer be in command. He’s a fascinating mix of very human traits.

Famous Firsts
There are two references in this episode to Vulcans having longer lifespans than humans – I think this is the first mention of this fact.

Kirk's Competency Hearing

Strangely this is not held in the official “hearings” room seen in Menagerie and Space Seed but in the regular Briefing Room, albeit with the red “interrogation” chair from other courtroom scenes.
Look, we all know it’s just the same set redressed in those other episodes, but with Kirk’s career on the line, was he not worth the effort?
Was it really just Kirk’s personal design preferences in those earlier episodes and Stocker likes to keep things simple?
So many questions!!! ;)

The Corbomite Ruse
Hey The Apple, THIS is how you do a decent callback to earlier episodes instead of just recycling old ideas verbatim! The use of an old concept, referenced and presented in a new and clever way. :techman:
Spock:"It could cure or kill." It could be a beaker full of death!
That was a pretty good implied callback too
As soon as a Federation ship goes into the Neutral Zone, Romulan ships are there to attack as if they were there all along, as if the Neutral Zone was their territory. I thought it was a NEUTRAL Zone. What right do the Romulans have to charge into the Neutral Zone and start firing? If a Romulan ship strays into the Neutral Zone, do Federation Starships get to charge in and start firing at them? It is good to see the Romulans again.
This is the first time we've seen the Romulans since BOT and it's not unreasonable to think that the political landscape has changed since then. Perhaps there was a loophole in the treaty revision that Romulan "patrol vessels" can exploit? If you doubt this, remember that these are the same Federation lawyers who signed away their rights to develop cloaking technology a few decades later though. They are not the brightest bunch :crazy:

AND FINALLY
Kirk is back in his gold duty uniform, at last! Although I suspect it was just easier to convey Kirk as elderly when not in his trendy wraparound. We also get...
SHIRTLESS KIRK
Maybe it was to establish how young and dishy he is (prior to getting really old)?
 
IIRC the green was handy as the season went on and Mr. S started to put on the pounds before reverting to his fruit salad diet.
 
This thread is pretty interesting to read. I'm a bit too late to the game as I just started my own production order rewatch (I'm only up to "Charlie X" at this point).

It's interesting to see the guy that started the thread, Archivist, disappeared last year. I mean, people drop off all the time, but in an ongoing discussion thread like this I wonder what happened (nothing bad I hope). Well, in any event, whatever happened the spirit of Archivist lives on in this thread ;), and it's a good one to look over as I proceed with my own rewatch.
 
This thread is pretty interesting to read. I'm a bit too late to the game as I just started my own production order rewatch (I'm only up to "Charlie X" at this point).

It's interesting to see the guy that started the thread, Archivist, disappeared last year. I mean, people drop off all the time, but in an ongoing discussion thread like this I wonder what happened (nothing bad I hope). Well, in any event, whatever happened the spirit of Archivist lives on in this thread ;), and it's a good one to look over as I proceed with my own rewatch.
Yeah, June 2018 was his last post! Surprising. :shrug:

I wouldn't worry if you're doing a catch-up watch. Other posters in this thread have dropped their thoughts several weeks after the majority have moved on after all, so I'm sure your thoughts wouldn't be unwelcome.

I for one always welcome fresh observations! :techman:
 
We seem to forget that people either lose the password, the interest or their lives while not on the forum! None of us can second guess that..ever! :eek:
JB
 
"Deadly Years" was very entertaining.
It was pretty amazing that in the entire Neutral Zone that the Romulans were minutes away from where the Enterprise crossed the border. I'd imagine the Neutral Zone to be millions and millions of km long. Also how is the Neutral Zone shaped so that you can get to Federation territory quicker by going through it?
I'm also skeptical of the reverse aging process. Why can't they apply that process to everyone as they age?
 
I'm also skeptical of the reverse aging process. Why can't they apply that process to everyone as they age?
Technically, they were not aging, they were suffering from radiation sickness which only resembled aging. The cure just fixed the radiation damage, it did not reverse their real aging which is a whole different biological process.
MCCOY: Captain Kirk is suffering from a, a peculiar physical degeneration which strongly resembles aging.​

The Neutral Zone must have a bulge in it. Remember space is three dimensional, too.
 
The Romulans turning up was just coincidence, in The Way To Eden when the Enterprise crossed into the Neutral Zone there were no Romulan cruising the area at all! Good job too as would they have been Klingon designed ships or Bird of Prey style? A good way to avoid continuity issues! :rommie:
JB
 
We seem to forget that people either lose the password, the interest or their lives while not on the forum! None of us can second guess that..ever! :eek:
JB


Yeah, sure. It's just something that caught my eye. I've noticed from time to time people that have dropped off, some years ago. Some for various reasons, some perhaps they have passed on, RIP.

This particular one just caught my eye because he (or she) seemed pretty excited about starting this thread and was gung-ho for a while and then suddenly disappeared one day. I hope whoever it was is ok and doing well of course. And whatever happened, their thread lives on.
 
Unless we're all unwitting pawns in an experiment to see how easy it is to get us to watch Star Trek (again!) and post about it.

I'd say mission accomplished.
 
The Deadly Years

Once again watching with a more critical attitude I've noticed some things that never seemed to occur to me.
The biggest by far is how this episode is "tailored" to fit for time yet include all of it's points.
A new malady makes the Captain not fit for command while there is a visiting Commodore aboard. Said commodore causing an emergency which causes the newly fixed captain to save everyone. There's so much shorthand in this one, the cure doesn't just stop the process, it puts them all back to normal, in moments!

There are so many details about this set up that just don't happen any other time.
How often do Commodores hitch rides to a starbase? Why is Dr. Wallace there? Plus, they are near the Romulan neutral zone.
The landing party goes to visit a colony, Chekov gets scared but is somehow immune to what happens to everyone else. The people from the colony die but somehow the last two are still alive to die on the Enterprise even though the comet seemed like it went through some time ago.
There are several orders Kirk gives that he really doesn't normally, given in such a way that they could be misunderstood because we have to show that he's afflicted.
It's one long sequence of trying to cram something in to 50 minutes. Medical mystery, courtroom drama, enemy attack, and the hero's triumphant return. It's not bad but it seems a bit contrived to me this time.

Another thing, Stocker is set up as a fool but he really isn't that bad. He's watching the captain of the ship lose his mind in front of him and he's not supposed to do anything?
I'm not sure why Kirk wouldn't go to the starbase except to continue to take sensor readings of the area, but it again strikes me as a constructed conflict.
All of the scientists and labs working around the clock and none of them found any cure, it was just Dr. McCoy, aged as he is, remembering "ancient" medical information while Kirk and Spock are just talking about what happened on the planet. Why didn't they do this little sit down before the whole hearing business?
So Stocker says at the end of the hearing set a direct course for starbase 10, Sulu then says "across the neutral zone?" That's direct? Maybe the zone curves and point A and B are across part of it, doesn't this ship steer? And at Warp 5, why not 6 or 8 even. I'd think going warp 8 around the zone would be faster than 5 through it. Plus isn't it a treaty violation to go into the zone? This guy is breaking a treaty and risking war because.... why?

And Sulu doesn't offer any assistance to anyone in this one, he comes of as a real drone. Uh I did that already sir. How about "can I have some clarification"
Chekov also isn't too good in this one, he seems like a selfish brat, shits himself on duty and then later just bitches about helping out. When he's saying his little speech about surviving but not enjoying it Sulu or anyone could have just turned and said, Hey, the captain is dying and you're whining about helping him?
There'd be a line of volunteers to donate blood or whatever was needed if they could and you're whining about having a physical?
The premise of fear causing adriniline which makes a person immune to this peculiar radiation and the little talk in sickbay is very remenisant of Opperation: Annihalate. The labs didn't do jack then either.
These Romulan ships look the same but they sure act differently. There seems to be at least 5, Sulu says maximum of ten, and they pummel the Enterprise when the first Romulan sent them running with one shot. They must be smaller patrol ships but no one says anything.
I like the Code 2 corbomite self destruct ruse but it's so contrived to get there, I wonder if the writer constructed the script around it. We need something to make Kirk temporarily dumb so he can come back at the end to be super cool.

This is one of those competently done but not very remarkable episodes. It's strange because season 2 has several of these but season 3 is the one everyone complains about. This episode also suffers from season 2 humor, they just had to wedge some silliness in there. I'd have preferred less of that and just a moment more of respect for Lt. Galloway. It's like she's dead, oh well. It was her own damn fault what with her metabolism. I think I'm starting to prefer season 3 over season 2, even with it's duds it didn't try to be as "cute".

Execution really puts this as better than it is. All of the actors really sell the infirmity they are supposed to be experincing, especially like how Shatner keeps his hands and Nimoy's slow limp. The costuming department really comes through too, giving everyone poorly fitting uniforms to help the look that something is wrong.
 
This is when they were a well-oiled machine cranking out a competent Star Trek ep per week, no mean feat.

The mystery, military bearing, and quiet moments of S1 are gone. Slicker. The great S2 music cues. But I prefer the quirkiness of the wraparound seasons to S2, generally speaking.
 
The Deadly Years

Once again watching with a more critical attitude I've noticed some things that never seemed to occur to me.
The biggest by far is how this episode is "tailored" to fit for time yet include all of it's points.
A new malady makes the Captain not fit for command while there is a visiting Commodore aboard. Said commodore causing an emergency which causes the newly fixed captain to save everyone. There's so much shorthand in this one, the cure doesn't just stop the process, it puts them all back to normal, in moments!

There are so many details about this set up that just don't happen any other time.
How often do Commodores hitch rides to a starbase? Why is Dr. Wallace there? Plus, they are near the Romulan neutral zone.
The landing party goes to visit a colony, Chekov gets scared but is somehow immune to what happens to everyone else. The people from the colony die but somehow the last two are still alive to die on the Enterprise even though the comet seemed like it went through some time ago.
There are several orders Kirk gives that he really doesn't normally, given in such a way that they could be misunderstood because we have to show that he's afflicted.
It's one long sequence of trying to cram something in to 50 minutes. Medical mystery, courtroom drama, enemy attack, and the hero's triumphant return. It's not bad but it seems a bit contrived to me this time.

Another thing, Stocker is set up as a fool but he really isn't that bad. He's watching the captain of the ship lose his mind in front of him and he's not supposed to do anything?
I'm not sure why Kirk wouldn't go to the starbase except to continue to take sensor readings of the area, but it again strikes me as a constructed conflict.
All of the scientists and labs working around the clock and none of them found any cure, it was just Dr. McCoy, aged as he is, remembering "ancient" medical information while Kirk and Spock are just talking about what happened on the planet. Why didn't they do this little sit down before the whole hearing business?
So Stocker says at the end of the hearing set a direct course for starbase 10, Sulu then says "across the neutral zone?" That's direct? Maybe the zone curves and point A and B are across part of it, doesn't this ship steer? And at Warp 5, why not 6 or 8 even. I'd think going warp 8 around the zone would be faster than 5 through it. Plus isn't it a treaty violation to go into the zone? This guy is breaking a treaty and risking war because.... why?

And Sulu doesn't offer any assistance to anyone in this one, he comes of as a real drone. Uh I did that already sir. How about "can I have some clarification"
Chekov also isn't too good in this one, he seems like a selfish brat, shits himself on duty and then later just bitches about helping out. When he's saying his little speech about surviving but not enjoying it Sulu or anyone could have just turned and said, Hey, the captain is dying and you're whining about helping him?
There'd be a line of volunteers to donate blood or whatever was needed if they could and you're whining about having a physical?
The premise of fear causing adriniline which makes a person immune to this peculiar radiation and the little talk in sickbay is very remenisant of Opperation: Annihalate. The labs didn't do jack then either.
These Romulan ships look the same but they sure act differently. There seems to be at least 5, Sulu says maximum of ten, and they pummel the Enterprise when the first Romulan sent them running with one shot. They must be smaller patrol ships but no one says anything.
I like the Code 2 corbomite self destruct ruse but it's so contrived to get there, I wonder if the writer constructed the script around it. We need something to make Kirk temporarily dumb so he can come back at the end to be super cool.

This is one of those competently done but not very remarkable episodes. It's strange because season 2 has several of these but season 3 is the one everyone complains about. This episode also suffers from season 2 humor, they just had to wedge some silliness in there. I'd have preferred less of that and just a moment more of respect for Lt. Galloway. It's like she's dead, oh well. It was her own damn fault what with her metabolism. I think I'm starting to prefer season 3 over season 2, even with it's duds it didn't try to be as "cute".

Execution really puts this as better than it is. All of the actors really sell the infirmity they are supposed to be experincing, especially like how Shatner keeps his hands and Nimoy's slow limp. The costuming department really comes through too, giving everyone poorly fitting uniforms to help the look that something is wrong.
Re: Chekov. This is the guy who in the Apple, with redshirts dying all around him and everyone on the ship about to die a horrible death which would leave him and the remaining landing party stranded on a planet literally trying to kill them, was perfectly content to canoodle with Martha. He's rather oblivious to such things.
 
I, Mudd

How does Norman know just what to do to sabotage the Enterprise? This is an ongoing issue with apparently every stranger who comes aboard the Enterprise knowing just what to do to sabotage it. That ancient race that Spock will talk about who travelled throughout the galaxy spreading their seed? Apparently they handed out detailed Connie blueprints across the galaxy while they were at it.

As Norman takes over the ship, I bet Spock now agrees with McCoy's assessment of Norman. Score one for McCoy's intuition.

It's our old friend, Harry Mudd. Carmel does a good job of making him goofy and yet with a sinister side underneath.

I'm not sure I'd want 500 of the same model of woman. Even if it was Dr. Noel. ;)

Heh. Never caught it before that Mudd calls Kirk "laddie-buck."

How did Norman get to the Enterprise? And convince them he was a new crewmember???? The androids must have ships of their own.

How did Harry tell the androids what Stella looked like?

In those tight pants, Norman is...well-endowed.

There's only one of Norman, and he's needed to coordinate all the other androids. I'm surprised they could spare him to be the one to sabotage Enterprise. Or is he the only one who could do it?

They use "robot" and "android" interchangeably, but they're not really the same thing. I say they are androids, though a little primitive. Flint or Roger Corby could teach them something about making androids.

LOL, what does Scotty call Mudd? A bogus frat? Maybe a poster from across the pond could explain that one? LOL

As a kid I never got why Chekov was so delighted when he found out about the Alice's abilities, but I do now.

This would actually be a great pleasure planet. Harry could get the word out and make a fortune as a legitimate businessman, far more than from any of his petty schemes. And the androids would have a constant stream of aliens to study if Harry could convince the androids not to take over the galaxy. Harry's so short-sighted.

Chekov's grin....did he get laid?

I wonder how the Klingons will react to Norman and company subjecting them to eternal pleasure. "It would have been GLORIOUS."

How tall was Roger Carmel? He looks huge. Just looked it up: 6' 3".

"...parabolic intersection of dimension with dimension..." Holy cow, what the heck is Spock talking about?

Here we see among many examples that Spock can indeed lie if he needs to. I bet he doesn't really like one Alice and hate the other.

Heh. Kirk's Plan B for when it's not possible to catch a computer in a Logic Trap: knock them out with pure insanity!

They're using it as an illogical way to confuse Norman, but it is a theme of TOS: Humans cannot just lounge in pleasure. Humans must have hardships to overcome. (Although sometime I wouldn't mind putting that to the test.)

As with Khan, Kirk takes it upon himself to sentence Mudd to confinement on a planet. I was wondering what ever happened to Mudd, but I forgot we find out in TAS.

How did they revive the androids without their desire to take over the galaxy? I notice there is no Norman around. Do the androids think independently now?

This episode is fluff. Nothing profound happens, but it's meant to be light comedy, and it is entertaining enough.

Alien Watch! I'm not counting the androids (even though I sort of counted Ruk), so no change.

Season 1
Talosians
That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
Ron Howard's brother
That dog from Enemy Within
Salt monster
That hand plant...Gertrude
Spock (duh)
Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
Romulans!
(Ruk)
Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
Shore Leave Caretaker guy
Trelaine and his folks*
Gorn
Metrons*
The Lazerii
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
Organians*
Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
(The Guardian of Forever)
Flying pancakes

Season 2
Sylvia and Korob
The Companion
The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
Full-blooded Vulcans
The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
Redjac
The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
Crew of the ISS Enterprise
The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans

*Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
**By request
 
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I think that most advanced aliens that Kirk and co. discover throughout the galaxy usually find their mode of transport to be fairly primitive so then decide to disable the starship with their devices in order to either trap them or destroy them!
JB
 
I agree that Carmel does a brilliant job of being comedic with sinister undertones and I love Stella but otherwise I don't really like this one. If they had linked these androids to Exo III, I would have disliked them less.
 
On The Deadly Years, I thought McCoy's makeup was good, but so was Scotty's. I loved the little moment when Scotty leaves sickbay and Spock goes with him, giving him a helping hand in the process.
 
I agree that Carmel does a brilliant job of being comedic with sinister undertones and I love Stella but otherwise I don't really like this one. If they had linked these androids to Exo III, I would have disliked them less.

Then Robert Bloch might have been owed royalties for writing WALGMO.
 
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