Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Maybe TAS is just trying to be overly simple for the kids and wrong for the adults at the same time.

 

V'ger was from within this galaxy, just on the far side.

Planet orbits diameters in AUs:

Neptune = 61
Saturn = 19
Jupiter = 9.5
Total = 89.5​

Multiply that by 2 and get ~179 AUs for this cloud, or more than twice the diameter of the V'ger cloud.

A single brick weighs well over 2 kilos.

Numbers do not appear to be your strong suit today.

 

Hey, are you implying I'm overthinking this or something?

Fair point. But did they know that at the start of TMP? Indeed, given the track record of where large, planet destroying items originate from in TOS I would say the odds were at least even of it being extra-galactic!

Unfortunately you are calculating the wrong thing, because Arex never mentioned orbit sizes in the episode:

SPOCK: It seems to be of irregular shape, some eight hundred thousand kilometres across and about half that in depth.
AREX: It's immense. Twice the diameters of Saturn, Jupiter and Neptune together!​

Add the diameters of the specified planets together, double them and you get 611,000 KM
If we go by Spock's estimate of 800,000 KM then the cloud is approx 0.005 AUs in size

Due to the way they phrase it both Spock and Arex are correct - but 179 AUs is way off the mark, sorry!

Are you saying that bricks are not dense? Indeed, I would say that they fit the bill perfectly and the extracted villi is even a shown as having a similar volume to a brick:
http://tas.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x03/oneofourplanetsismissing117.jpg
I just wouldn't have expected something that functions as a villi to have the density of a brick, is all

Based on evidence submitted, I would beg to differ.

 

What are we trying to prove, that Arex is a dope? I'm just glad he can speak.

 

No, he was spot on: Spock said that the cloud was approx 800,000KM and Arex gave the (Earth-centric) comparison that 800,000 KM was larger than twice the combined diameters of the 3 planets.

 

Mea culpa on the planets. I misread that as their orbital diameters.

As to the outside the galaxy thing there’s no mention of them wondering where V’ger is from prior to Spock’s spacewalk, so the outside the galaxy similarity to the Doomsday Machine is a non starter.

And sure I guess for a “cloud” to have brick density solid structures is somewhat odd, but my point was generally that bricks are not considered remarkably dense objects.

 

I suppose from an in universe perspective, where it comes from is rather beside the point anyway! But I sense this is such a sticking point, how about I just revise my post to read:

Would that be better?
The plot element is still very similar to TMP, regardless!

Fair enough. I think I may have over emphasised the denseness of that that point anyway

 

Edit: never mind.

 

It's like it could have been written by Gene Coon!

Actually, seriously, it coulda been a Coon or J.M. Lucas episode (right down to Bob Wesley). This was one of my favorites as a kid, one that I tape recorded off the TV when it aired. Like a dope, I narrated it so I knew what was happening when I listened. Oy

To be honest, they called it something different almost every time they used it in the original series. The mind touch, the mind fusion, the mind probe, the "Vulcan technique for the joining of two minds." The "mind-meld" was a late series term.

 

I just checked and you're right, the term "mind meld" first appeared in Spectre Of The Gun and once more in Elaan Of Troyius.
That's it - TWICE!
For such a "well known" term, that is genuinely surprising to me
Of course, I couldn't help but dig a little deeper:

The process as it originally appeared in Dagger Of The Mind was unnamed but described as "an ancient Vulcan technique to probe into Van Gelder's tortured mind."

Afterwards Spock...

• used it unnamed on McCoy in The Return of The Archons
• mentioned and made use of his "limited telepathic abilities" in A Taste of Armageddon
• described "the Vulcan technique of the joining of two minds" in Devil In The Dark
• explicitly named the technique as the "Vulcan mind probe" in The Changeling.
• used it unnamed but spoke a mantra similar to DOTM in Mirror, Mirror
• attempted its use unnamed on Norman in I, Mudd
• uses what Kirk refers to as the "Vulcan mind probe" (apparently what he used in ATOA) in By Any Other Name
• is requested by McCoy to use the use the "Vulcan mind fusion" on Kirk in The Paradise Syndrome
• describes the fusion of his and Kollos' identities as a "mind link" in Is There In Truth No Beauty
• performed an unnamed mind wipe on Kirk in Requiem For Methuselah.
• uses his "telepathic mind" to confirm Kirk's story in Turnabout Intruder.

So thanks to the ATOA retcon, the term "Vulcan Mind Probe" technically gets used three time and is the winner!
Who'd have thunk it?

 

The movies also took the term “mind meld” as well. Spock did it every damned film.

 

The Vulcan mind "probe-link-meld-fusion" all seem to be the same technique but varying levels of penetration from a simple surface scan, to a joint mind link (sharing), up to total mind transference (katra).

 

I'm confused by your calculations because from what I see online, an AU is 150 million KM.

 

Mytran's math is okay: 800,000/150,000= 5.33 AUs or as he said, "just over 5 AUs".

 

Yep, I messed up by a factor of 1,000 with that one!
That's what I get for rapidly flipping between tabs I suppose

Nope, my maths were very careless unfortunately! 1AU=150,000,000 KM

I have amended the original post

 

What does ATOA stand for?
Edit: I finally got it: A Taste of Armageddon. But you might have just written it out for us. When you said retcon, I went looking for Star Trek Enterprise episodes, and all over hell and gone.

 

Oops, double oops. Sorry.

 

Oops, sorry! I do honestly try to be as clear as possible in my posts, but this week my clarity (and accuracy) has been decidedly dodgy in places!

 

MUDD'S PASSION

So, Stephen Kandel is back for a third time with yet another “Mudd” story. Can the man write anything else? Actually I wish he would because I, Mudd was the least funny of the three “comedy” episodes of Season Two and really didn’t deserve another outing, let alone one so replete with tired tropes, forced coincidences, off character moment and bad decision making.
The “false love” angle is reminiscent of the Venus Drug from Mudd’s Women but fortunately the story itself doesn’t retread that too much…although largely because anything like a “plot” is very light on substance and doesn’t hold up at all under scrutiny.

This disappointing episode starts with Kirk et al tracking down Harcourt Fenton Mudd who is up to his old tricks of trying to swindle people.
Yawn.
We are not told if Kirk sought out the “capture Mudd” task or was randomly assigned it – the latter would push credibility, but not for the last time this week!

What is nice is that we actually get to Mudd’s con game in person (complete with a population of aliens) rather than just hear about it in passing – yet again a potentially dull situation is salvaged by making good use of the animated format.
Unfortunately, the con itself though is pretty transparent and his “proof” to the miners of the love potion’s veracity is laughably bad, even by his standards. However, the audience seems to buy it. Hmmm, what exactly are “heavy metal miners” anyway?

• Miners that like a certain genre of music?
• Overweight miners of metallic ores?
• People that mine of substances like mercury, arsenic and lead?

If the latter, no wonder their intellects have been affected!

Then Spock uses his phaser to cause wanton and massive property damage on a non-Federation world before they beam away without an apology.

Speaking of which, the standard phaser is used for just about everything this week! New abilities include:

• Neutralising the illusion of a Rigelian hypnoid without stuning it.
• Carving a trench in asphalt within seconds that is so deep and wide that a group of angry miners cannot cross it
• Deactivating the brig’s forcefield without overloading any of its machinery or causing nearby damage
• Erasing the photograph of an ID card (well it certainly sounds like a phaser beam)

Yep, a truly amazing device. Definitely not lazy writing.

Although played for laughs, I don’t actually mind the way Harry got off the android planet after I, Mudd since there must have been ships on the planet for Norman to sneak on board the Enterprise in the first place.

But from this point on any semblance of a coherent plot goes out the window with massive coincidences, lapses in logic and poor decisions which exist solely to drive the narrative.
For a start, Nurse Chapel’s back to swooning over Spock.
Yawn.
Didn’t she get over this following the events of Return To Tomorrow? Even the Stardate is later! The trope was getting tired on its second appearance in Amok Time and definitely did not need to come back in TAS.

However, Chapel’s infatuation is required so Mudd can snatch her phaser – which begs the question; why is she even armed as she’s just there to patch up a minor wound!
I know she was part of the security landing party in The Lorelei Signal but those were exceptional circumstances. At the very least, shouldn’t there be a guard present?

In fact, where are the guards? Did the writer think we were still in TOS Season Three where the main cast did everything? There’s no security brought along to arrest Mudd and none on the rock monster planet, even though those are situations that would demand their presence!

Also, why is McCoy at the science station - just so he can be in the scene?
And why is he reporting to Kirk about the crystals found in the “shuttlecraft bay”? Shouldn’t that be security’s job as well? Are they all on personal leave? It would explain why Mudd was able to smuggle on board a HUGE amount of love crystals, despite him being a known scoundrel.

Anyway, Mudd steals not only a phaser, but an ID card as well which is required to access certain areas of the ship...Which is new.
Is this automated system what has replaced all the regular security personnel?
Was this an upgrade after the events at Mantilles last week? Damn you, Bob Wesley, why won’t you ever learn!!!

Fortunately there’s an easily accessible machine round the corner from the brig which will print a new photo on a stolen card, no questions asked.
Also, any secure door you need to use the card on doesn’t bother checking the name, just the photo.

Chapel tries to reclaim some agency (and dignity) by accosting Mudd before he steals a shuttle, but that is short lived. Then the love potion vapour ends up in the ventilation system! Didn’t they learn any lessons from Obsession?

Also, if each crystal contains just one drop of love potion, would that stash be hopelessly diluted by the time it had mixed with all the air from the ship?
I suppose the effects wear off pretty quickly, within a few minutes it seems.

Roger Carmel’s vocal talents really carry this episode: Once on the Enterprise Harry is beautifully devious and psychologically manipulative but the absurd circumstances operate way too much in his favour. Did he also acquire some of the Luck Virus from boys on Red Dwarf? It seems so, because once he leaves the Enterprise all his cunning and good luck vanish and he’s back to making stupid decisions: He lands on the planet that the Enterprise is orbiting to drop off Chapel but then (based on zero research) decides to set up shop right there! HE HAS A SHUTTLE. He can go absolutely anywhere else!!!
But then we wouldn’t be able to have an exciting adventure with rock monsters, or re-capture Harry Mudd.
Can’t we just let him go?

OTHER THOUGHTS:

• Leaving the planet Motherload, the Enterprise arrives at a totally new, amazingly scientific star system really quickly. We’ve seen some rapid travel times in TAS (20 light years in 2.4 hours) but this is ludicrous speed!
• So, sex is binary and hetero-normative, is it? I know, limits of a 1970 children’s TV show.
  Also, this is Harry Mudd sales pitch to Chapel so I hardly think it should stand as an authoritative stance on the subject.
• Apparently, Harry keeps the love crystals stashed in his copious chest hair! Was he inspired by Marge Simpson and what she keeps in her bun?
• Arex is quite the musician! He’s also a bit of a sarcastic bugger, given the whistle he lets out when Spock blurts out his loving feelings for Christine.
  All in all he’s turning into quite a quirky character!
• It’s the first TAS flight deck…and it’s huge! Well, no larger than in TOS, but this is the first time we’ve seen the shuttles themselves racked against the walls like that.
• Those rock monsters were pretty cool. Their roars reminded me of talking green tigers though…
• That shuttle design is pretty cool too!
  RIP
• Just like in All Our Yesterdays, lovestruck Spock is angry Spock.
• McCoy’s smooth, seductive lines are back! “If Enterprise had a heart I’d save her too. Now let’s talk about your heart…”
• Spock’s incredible Vulcan physique breaks through the power of Mudd’s love potion, but at least he isn’t instrumental in saving the day for once.
• The one comedic scene that actually worked was when Kirk was calling for an emergency beam up, only for the scene to cut to two crewmen dancing in the Transporter Room – perfectly timed!
• Kirk is a boss! He just stands there as the rock creature threatens to crush him, confident that his crazy plan will somehow work. Or is he just dumb? There’s a lot of that going round this week.
• Thanks to Carmel, Harry’s final line gives us a weird yet sinister ending!
  It’s nice, but totally undeserved given the rest of the absurdities we’ve just been subjected to.

 

To this TAS Episode is so bad its good.
Its hijinks are highly entertaining but make no sense in the Stra Trek world.
I have just finished watching "What Are Little Girls Made Of" and was speculating whether Kirk could trust Chapel after she was reluctant to betray Roger even after he sent Ruk to kill Kirk, then showed that he's practically order Ruk to kill her crewmates.
So in this episode she takes on Mudd's offer to drug Spock so he can be hers. What! I'm sorry but in the 21st century I think Nurse Chapel should be at least off the ship and have her nursing license gone and possibly be in jail.
But this was the 70s and apparently that was OK then? They just should have had Chapel under the influence another victim of Mudd before she agreed to his plan. Otherwise shes just a predator and even though I find Chapel crusher to be pathetic I want to think she has integrity. It would have been great say to find that when she has Spock artificial love then she realises thats not what she really wants - some self realisation - something that would make her a stronger character.

ID Card. Ridiculous. Perhaps another 70s thing.

Hetrosexual love potion? I probably think it didn't change your natural inclinations. But it would have been funny for it to be the first person you saw. Look I have to say the Kirk and Spock shoulder hug looked suss to me and the good friends sounded a bit we protest too much..

Have you read the Agony Booth's write-up of this episode.
Almost as funny as your review.