Production Order Group Viewing 2018

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Archivist13, May 8, 2018.

  1. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I had similar mixed feelings going in. The character work and discussions are good - the way the situation was engineered to place said characters in those events was not.
     
  2. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Along those lines, note that Troi and Beverly both had to wear wigs on TNG. It must have been a Roddenberry thing, that he liked a huge head of hair on a woman, more so than a human head could actually produce.
     
  3. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I never realised that either, especially Beverley!!! :wtf:
    JB
     
  4. Damian

    Damian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've been watching the original series...I'm a little behind where most people are at here but one thing I figured I'd throw out there that I noticed when watching "Court Martial". I received the Blu-Ray series as a gift and am watching them for the first time and one thing about Blu-Ray is they are so crystal clear that I can clearly see the stunt doubles duking it out in place of Kirk and Finney. In previous versions it was just unclear enough that I could sort of gloss over the use of stunt doubles. You knew they were there but you could fudge it because it wasn't in HD clarity. But on Blu-Ray it was patently obvious it wasn't Shatner and the guy playing Finney. In fact the doubles really didn't resemble to two actors all that much.
     
  5. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    On those terms, Space Seed's engine room fight is the worst. Four men enter the arena, and only Shatner is left standing when it's over. :lol:
     
  6. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was already mentioned by johnnybear upthread but the McCoy stunt double in Bread And Circuses is also particularly egregious - he even sports a black vest under his T-shirt that McCoy doesn't have!
     
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  7. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Captain Captain

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    I see.

    (Not really.) :lol:
     
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  8. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

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    Johnny is so radio
     
  9. Poltargyst

    Poltargyst Captain Captain

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    Journey to Babel

    One of my favorites!

    114 delegates on board and 32 ambassadors. I wonder how many of them are bitchy.

    I wonder how they had the room for so many extra dignitaries. Didn't Uhura have to give up her room for Elaan? Did the Enterprise have to go with a skeleton crew for this?

    I like the funky Vulcan music as the Sareks come aboard. They must come with a whole contingent of Vulcans since more Vulcans are mentioned later. None of them are apparently doctors despite Sarek's condition.

    It's the Romulan commander! How did he survive? Oh, Spock's father happens to look like him. Good thing Stiles isn't on board. I'm keeping my eye on you, "Sarek of Vulcan."

    So no one clued Kirk in that Sarek was Spock's father before they got to Vulcan, huh?

    It would have been cool if they had mentioned T'Pau.

    I really do like Mark Lenard in both of his TOS roles.

    Amanda agreed to live on Vulcan, married a Vulcan, and had a son on Vulcan but expects to be able to change her husband and son to become more human and emotional.

    Amanda stated the Vulcan way is better, but I'm not sure she always believes it especially later.

    One think I love about this episode is seeing all the different races expressing different points of view.

    Charming guys, these Tellurites.

    Jane Wyman's facial expressions are really good too.

    How old are Sarek and Spock? Mark Lenard was 42 and Leonard Nimoy 36 when this episode was made. I didn't think Lenard looked old enough to be Spock's father. But of course, Vulcans age differently.

    So much for Ambassador Gav. Not even wearing a red shirt.

    Kirk changes out of his dress uni and into...the wraparound!

    Shouldn't McCoy have been, I don't know, trained in how to treat Vulcans given he has one among the crew? What about all the other races in attendance? Did they bring their own doctors? Or would McCoy have to guess his way through their treatment as well?

    "Rigellian physiology is similar to Vulcans." Does that include the big ugly barbarian Pike fought on Rigel 7?

    "Test subjects on Rigel 5..." You could go to Rigel IV or Rigel V, but don't go to Rigel VII. Clearly Rigel is the most important system in the Federation.

    If I was a writer on TOS, I would make everything come from Rigel.

    Kirk Fu! Gotta like the double-handed blow ("The Lumberjack"), but I love the Flying Backwards Butt Slam. Unfortuately, it opened Kirk up to getting stabbed in the back. But even when Kirk is wounded, the Kirk Fu cannot be defeated.

    Cool that McCoy and Kirk mention Scotty. Makes it feel like he's in the episode even though he's not.

    So many different storylines and styles in this episode from action to family drama to medical drama to politics and all done well. Great writing by DC Fontana.

    Damn, Amanda's got a right cross. Really good scene there in Spock's quarters.

    Kirk handles the emergency quite well considering he was stabbed in the back. The miracles of 23rd Century technology?

    The red shirts were actually kind of useful this episodes instead of just dying. They discovered the Orion's transmitter.

    Kirk is damn lucky the alien didn't just come in firing while he was playing possum. And, really, why didn't they? They were supposed to be destroying the Enterprise, right? What was there to wait for?

    Chekov takes the comm? That must be a first. Meanwhile, Uhura is sitting right there, and she outranks him. Hmph. I'm sure she had something more important to do at that moment.

    "Logic! Logic! I'm sick to death of logic!" Another of those quotes I remember from childhood.

    McCoy's final line is always fun.

    So let me get this plot straight. Coridan wants to be admitted to the Federation. They have a lot of dilithium crystals, but not enough people to defend them. So the Orions (and apparently the Tellurites) have been going to Coridan and swiping dilithium and selling it to everyone thereby making a lot of money. If Coridan joins the Federation, then they couldn't do that anymore, and the money would be gone. So they decide to use terrorism to stop Coridan from joining including by destroying a Federation ship filled with ambassadors. Do we ever learn if Coridan joins the Federation?

    I really like this episode. Kodos!

    Alien Watch! Any aliens to add? Ay caramba! Are there ever! Let's see, I've got the tall guys, the short guys, the Andorians, the Tellurites, the purple lady, and an Orion made up like an Andorian. Does that about cover it?

    Season 1
    Talosians
    That big ugly Rigellian guy Pike fought in illusion
    Vina as an Orion girl in illusion
    Glimpse of other aliens captured by Talosians
    Ron Howard's brother
    That dog from Enemy Within
    Salt monster
    That hand plant...Gertrude
    Spock (duh)
    Charlie's parents (Thasians)*
    Romulans!
    (Ruk)
    Miri's planet kids (bonk bonk)
    Giant ape creatures of Taurus II
    Shore Leave Caretaker guy
    Trelaine and his folks*
    Gorn
    Metrons*
    The Lazerii
    The remarkably human-looking aliens of Beta 3. (RotA)
    The remarkably human-looking aliens of Emineminar VII (AToA)
    The Triffids of Omicron Ceti III (TSoP)
    The refreshingly non-human-looking Horta
    Organians*
    Klingons! (Remarkably human looking).
    (The Guardian of Forever)
    Flying pancakes

    Season 2
    Sylvia and Korob
    The Companion
    The remarkably human looking (though tall) Cappellans.
    Native Pollux IV-ians (Apollo and his gang)
    Full-blooded Vulcans
    The remarkably human looking citizens of Argelius II (WitF)
    Redjac
    The People of Vaal (Gamma Triangulians)
    Crew of the ISS Enterprise
    The remarkably human-looking** (except for maybe a dot on their forehead) Halkans
    Tribbles (not at all human looking)
    The remarkably human-looking citizens of...892-VI. Is that what they call this planet? (The Roman one.)
    Tall guys, short guys, Andorians, Tellurites, purple lady, Orion made up like an Andorian. (JtB)

    *Alien Watch sublist: omnipotent aliens!
    **By request
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
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  10. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    JOURNEY TO BABEL

    This really is a first class episode which combines family and political drama in a science fiction setting. It expands the Star Trek universe in both background and in relation to its characters. It balances high tension with lighter moments. It's nearly perfect in every way.

    Other thoughts:
    • I’m influenced by Phil Farrand, but Spock really is much more austere and logical in this episode, with his father present.
    • In fact, the situation between Spock and Sarek is so raw that it's no wonder McCoy wanted to strip his first officer down prior to their reunion!
    • Spock is Kirk’s best officer and his friend – that he take very little personal interest in!
    • Kirk tells Sarek that Starfleet is an instrument of civilisation. So, not a humanitarian and peacekeeping armada? :devil:
    • Glad McCoy is back to teasing Spock instead of being outright offensive
    • So many alien species! The Federation feels truly diverse for the first time. And that Briefing Room set is quite large with the table removed.
    • Just when it seems like the plot is getting s little talky...elsewhere on the ship there is a knife fight happening!
    • The fake Andorian is subjected to verifier scan and truth drug, the latter first mentioned in The Man Trap.
    • Sarek has to go to the Rec Room to take his pills – personal space on the Enterprise must be extremely limited! Just that room and the observation deck?
    • Spock touches the door when his mother storms out. Thank goodness for those drama-sensors which know to keep the door closed! :)
    Amanda is such an awesome wife and mother – she takes no nonsense from either of her men.
    It's interesting that she gives a similar speech to McCoy last week, basically “just be human!” but in a much more effective manner IMO
    Plus she has the “when you were five” story :wah:

    TREK FIRSTS
    • Black waist belts for the security personnel (I think this is the first time, anyway!)
    • Also, this is the first time we’ve seen phasers on stun this season and it comes with a new visual effect; instead of a “beam” from the phaser it is now a flash of green light. I wonder what the reason for this change was?

    TREK MEDS
    • McCoy is a theoretical expert in Vulcan physiology – quite believable if Vulcans are a recent addition to the Federation (which seems to be the implication in TOS, even if not in later series)
    • During the operation, Spock is lying on the exercise bench that is normally up against the foot-blocks on the wall. Could McCoy just not be bothered to wheel in a proper bed from the adjacent room?

    HI-DEF ODDITIES
    • The Andorian has Caucasian "pinkskin" hands during the knife fight
    • In Sickbay, the HD reveals the aggravated pores on Kirk’s recently waxed chest. Ouch!
    • The CGI extensions to the shuttlebay set do not match the miniature anywhere close enough to make the effort worthwhile. The original set (depicting a plain grey room, presumably the area underneath the flight deck) did a much better job IMO

    Just to dredge up an age old debate...
    When Kirk orders power be cut to the port side, the lights go off above the communications station AND the turbolift alcove. This would indicate that the Bridge faces forward and that the turbolift (doors, at least) are off the centreline.

    That really made me chuckle, thanks :beer:

    “At the time, it seemed the logical thing to do”. I remember my dad echoing this sentiment about my own mother, back when I was a young Trekkie. And it's one I use myself to this day :techman:
     
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  11. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Journey to Babel is great. I love the aliens, their less than human personalities, and a bit of Federation politics.

    Much as I love Sarek, I love Amanda more. She knows when to use logic to her advantage and when to challenge it and she's quite mischievous. She's a great multi-faceted character. I thought the NuTrek version was bland and neutered by comparison but (having only seen season 1 to date) I thought the version in Discovery was much closer to the mark. The little finger touching is a nice alien gesture. Sarek can psychically slobber all over his wife and nobody is any the wiser.

    I love the Andorians. I hope we get much more of them. Tellarites need a make-over though.

    The medical drama is quite well done, adding a layer of peril to the political threat and Kirk's ruse to help his friend is a nice nod to how far he'll go for Spock.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Journey to Babel" is one of my top five favorite TOS eps, easily. It's right up there with

    "The Doomsday Machine"
    "The City of the Edge of Forever"
    "Where No Man Has Gone Before"

    and... and... one other! :) :techman:
     
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  13. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Plaid Lensman Premium Member

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    “Balance of Terror”.

    No protest on this, Mark.
     
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  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :alienblush:

    After thinking about your post, let me put it this way. “Balance of Terror” and "Mirror, Mirror" are the two episodes in the #5 and #6 positions. :whistle: ;)

    I'm sure some would find the rest of my top ten odd.

    Anyway, "Journey to Babel," awesome episode.

    One thing I wish TOS-R had done which they didn't do (IIRC) is show the Orion ship actually firing on the Enterprise with its standard phasers.
     
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  15. Henoch

    Henoch Captain Premium Member

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    Great episode. I prefer the original FX of the alien vessel and battle. Distances are beyond visual range with very low light (space is dark), so, the view screen should be showing a highly magnified, highly light-amplified, computer enhanced image: i.e. a blob of shifting light. At very high warp speeds, 1) the approach from the edge of sensor range, 2) weapon discharge and 3) pass-by back out of range would be perceived near simultaneously and slightly after the entire three-stage FTL event had occurred. Speed wins in a space battle.

    The alien vessel was attacking at warp 8. Not counting Nomad, up to this time, the Enterprise hit warp 8 four times (by production order) on its own power, so, technically the alien vessel was not faster than the Enterprise. It must be the "power utilization curve" thing that allowed the alien to accelerate to warp 8 and/or maneuver much quicker than the Enterprise, and hit hard with full phasers. This is also probably the reason that the Enterprise couldn't outrun the alien, rather, it put its energy into the shields. No one can pull the "play dead" starship trick like Kirk. :techman: I think he uses it three times during TOS; hell, it even worked against Khan in the movies.
     
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  16. GNDN18

    GNDN18 Plaid Lensman Premium Member

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    Okay, that’s fair. As soon as I posted, “Amok Time” time occurred to me as Top 5 contender. So I protested myself.

    I think they did show the phasers in JTB, but it was rendered so darkly you couldn’t see it.
     
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  17. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    I'm probably Robinson Crusoe here but am I the only one to think that Amanda is a bad Mother?

    She has basically allowed Sarek to belittle Spock all his life and in the end compels him to risk his life with some dangerous drugs in order to save her husband. I would never let my son risk his life for me let alone his father.;)

    And while Amanda is strong enough to ignore Sarek's commands while he's out of earshot and strong enough to demand that Spock risk his life for his father all she did was weep for Spock when he was bullied as a child. She didn't go to the school and demand the principal do something. I'm guessing Sarek wouldn't allow that.

    I'm not that impressed by a woman who jumps when her husband snaps his fingers even though she mostly ignored his demands if he was out of sight.
    I liked her better in TAS when she seemed to care about Spock and wasn't as subservient to Sarek.
     
  18. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    She's a human in a world of Vulcans . She would not survive without adapting over the years.
     
  19. Mytran

    Mytran Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't disagree with the rest of your points, but when Amanda responds to Sareks summons (like in the Engine Room) isn't that in her role as the ambassador's wife? In that power structure, isn't he essentially her boss?
     
  20. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'll keep an eye out next time it's on. There was no such shot in the original VFX, so they would have had to create a new shot with no original correspondence (to happen right when the ship is shaken), but new shots had been inserted into "Errand of Mercy" as one example (showing the ship attacking in the teaser, showing the Klingon fleet over Organia).