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Pre-planned SF shows or...?

Hoshi_Mayweather

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
This was brought up in one of the other threads:

Do you think a show is better if it is pre-planned (i.e. B5), or if the writers 'wing it' (i.e. Star Trek series, Lost)?
 
It depends on the strengths and makeup of the writing staff. As long as the method chosen results in a quality show that is mostly self-consistent, I really have no preference. The best writers don't make it completely obvious that they are making it up as they go.
 
20 years ago winging it would be the only way, but in this day and age people want decent storytelling week after week with consistency and continuity. Pre-planning a show is a very good way to go, HOWEVER a show can be planned out on a season by season basis (like Buffy) so forward planning doesn't have to extend for the entire shows run (like Babylon 5).

Considering the original storyline for Babylon 5 (in another thread here in SFF) changed so many times before it got on air, planning so far ahead can have it's downfalls.

I have never watched Lost beyond the pilot so I can't comment.
 
I'd prefer the strategy employed by the writers of The Wire. Before writing the scripts, they break the entire season, episode by episode. A theme for that year is established at the outset, and once the season and episode outlines are completed (a collaborative process), the scripts go out to individual writers who complete their assignments. Then, the showrunner revises all of the scripts (sometimes making small changes, sometimes making big changes) by the other writers in order to make the season a dramatically coherent, thematically unified whole.

One of three other option I see are to approach writing like Babylon 5, and plan everything at the outset. I'm not much of a fan of this approach. It leaves the writers moving around characters like they are chess pieces instead of letting them grow naturally from what is on screen (the chemistry between Worf and Dax on Deep Space Nine, for example, was never planned but is incredibly apparent from their first scene together). It also leaves you beholden to real world changes that are unavoidable (mainly, cast departures), leaving the writers to play defense for their pre-planned structures. Instead of organically absorbing these changes into the series, the writing sticks closer to the original plan, leaving a stiffer, less interesting final product.

The next option is to make up everything as you go along, which is the strategy used by the writers of 24. Six (now a seventh) seasons of that series have proved this strategy mostly ineffective. The first season is somewhat ineligible for discussion, since the first 12 episodes were mapped out after the pilot, but the change in coherence in just one episode after that is intensely apparent. Seasons two and five managed to sustain themselves due to writing that was as clever as it was lucky, but the other seasons are far less coherent--the third, fourth, and sixth years all have Frankenstein-like narrative structures, with abrupt, arbitrary, and incoherent plot twists that do their best to keep ideas that have petered out after six or twelve episodes on life support for a full, 24 hour season.

The last option, which some will not differentiate from the previous method (but I will) is the one utilized by both Farscape and the 2003-2009 version of Battlestar Galactica. This is an approach that is not entirely without a plan, but does not have a precise structure. Instead, the writers work with a few story points they know they want to hit in a particular season, but that's it. The rest grows organically from the writing process, sometimes for better, and sometimes for worse. I can understand why some writing staffs use this strategy--I doubt writers outside of a few cable series like The Wire or Dexter have a lot of time (and money) alloted to methodically break scripts before filming begins. And, usually, they have more episodes to produce in a season (perhaps twice as many), further accelerating the schedule.
 
Have a roadmap for the season which you're about to produce or that you're currently producing. Maybe have also some tentative ideas for the season which would come after that (in any case, have a plan how to solve the obligatory cliffhanger at the end of your current season). Make adjustments along the way if something doesn't work as good as you thought.

I think that would be the most practical way. Something like the B5 arc is fine, but it's very hard to put into practice. I guess that's why nobody else tried to do it. It did only work (most of the time) because of a whole lot of luck and the enormous efforts of JMS. But not every series is graced by a showrunner who is not only very creative, but also a workaholic and a control freak. ;)
 
I agree with Hirogen, particularly about The Wire, which is easily the best show ever put to the small screen.

In the end it really depends on what the creator's goal is with his show. One method may not necessarily meet the goals effectively as others. The B5 plan, for instance, leaves little wiggle room for writers in regards to both real life or creative situations. I'm not saying everything needs to be PLANNED out like The Wire is, but my god it is impossible to argue against their success.
 
As I said in another thread in the BSG forum, if a show is going to spend as much time on the arc as most dramatic series tend to nowadays, then I think the finished product will turn out much better with more preplanning. At the very least, the writers should have the resolution to various mysteries set in their heads as they introduce the mysteries, otherwise it becomes painfully obvious that they're winging it when they try to retcon in the answer later on. That doesn't actually require *that* much extra work, and it would make the shows so much better.

The only time when I think it's no biggie that the writers haven't planned things out in advance is in a case like, say, Seasons 1-5 of DS9, where the arc is on a slow burn, and there really aren't that many episodes devoted to it anyway.
 
I'm fine with all stand-alone episodes, or a loose interconnection or completely pre-planned. What I tend to dislike is when a show is supposed to have a fairly rigorous arc and it gets written *without* the planning. Fans aren't stupid and they'll be able to tell fairly quickly if a show's flying blind.

Jan
 
Do you think a show is better if it is pre-planned (i.e. B5), or if the writers 'wing it' (i.e. Star Trek series, Lost)?

That's not what determines the quality of a show. Those are differences in approach, that's all. Besides, your examples don't quite work. "Winging it" for an episodic show like ST is fine; there's nothing wrong with it as long as you don't ignore past developments or their likely consequences. But "winging it" for a purportedly tightly serialized show like Lost is a very bad idea. So that's apples and oranges within the same pair of parentheses.

As for B5, that was the best of both worlds. It wasn't just "pre-planned." It had an overall arc in mind, but was highly flexible about how it realized that arc, constantly adapting and adjusting as it went. If you're going to do a serialized show, or an arc-based episodic show as B5 was, then that's the best way to do it. You shouldn't try to plan out everything in advance, because that's too restrictive. Just figure out the key points you want to include and the ultimate goals you have in mind, but be flexible about how you achieve those things, because along the way you're bound to discover some terrific ideas that didn't occur to you in advance, and to find that some of your ideas don't work as well as you initially thought.

As with all things in life, young Padawan, the answer lies not in the extremes, but in the balance between them.
 
I was under the impression that Lost is mostly pre-planned with an overall arc.

More so now, perhaps, but in the first couple of seasons they were going out of their way to postpone whatever arc plans they had in mind, because the show's runaway popularity made the network ask them to drag it out longer so they could get more episodes out of it. Which proved very damaging to the show's quality, and the producers finally insisted on a definite end point so they could have more control over the pacing.
 
If they're good at it, they can wing it all they want, eg, Lost.

If they don't know what they're doing and it shows, then no, eg, Heroes.

Moral of the story: know your strengths and weaknesses, and adjust accordingly.

From my observation, it's rare to see writers with the ability to wing it and still come up with something worth watching, so that's going to be an option for very few.
The next option is to make up everything as you go along, which is the strategy used by the writers of 24. Six (now a seventh) seasons of that series have proved this strategy mostly ineffective.
Oh but I enjoyed Marwan's psychic ability to stay ten steps ahead of Jack for no particular reason throughout S4. :D 24 is much better if you just think of it as stealth sci-fi.

The last option, which some will not differentiate from the previous method (but I will) is the one utilized by both Farscape and the 2003-2009 version of Battlestar Galactica. This is an approach that is not entirely without a plan, but does not have a precise structure. Instead, the writers work with a few story points they know they want to hit in a particular season, but that's it. The rest grows organically from the writing process, sometimes for better, and sometimes for worse.
Both examples are very flawed but interesting shows, so I'm not sure that's an endorsement of allowing a show to "grow organically." Both suffered a lot from self-indulgent nonsense from the writers and would have benefitted from tighter discipline in story arcs and, you know, what is the frakking/frelling point of it all?
 
They are not winging it on LOST. The answers for all the questions that were raised were known by the writers. If you go back and watch the earlier episodes it's pretty obvious as you spot things that make you say, "Wow, they address that two seasons down the lines."

After the first two seasons they not only knew the answers but also how and when the answers would be revealed. They knew from the start how the show would end, though.
 
They are not winging it on LOST. The answers for all the questions that were raised were known by the writers. If you go back and watch the earlier episodes it's pretty obvious as you spot things that make you say, "Wow, they address that two seasons down the lines."
Well then forget winging it - that was the only show I could think of where it might actually be working. Otherwise, I can't think of a single serialized show where lack of planning didn't result in some degree of disaster.
 
Well then forget winging it - that was the only show I could think of where it might actually be working. Otherwise, I can't think of a single serialized show where lack of planning didn't result in some degree of disaster.

Well, how broadly are you defining "serialized?" Deep Space Nine was pretty much made up as it went; instead of having an advance plan, the producers just picked up on ideas and characters they liked and kept elaborating on them more and more. The planning was as much reactive as proactive -- "Okay, this is turning out to be interesting, now where can we take it next?" And overall, it held together surprisingly well, considering.
 
Oh but I enjoyed Marwan's psychic ability to stay ten steps ahead of Jack for no particular reason throughout S4. :D 24 is much better if you just think of it as stealth sci-fi.

24 takes place in the future and uses more than a few pieces of technology that do not exist. Of course it's science fiction. That still doesn't give the writers an excuse for stupidity.
 
Honestly having a plan in place would help things, I mean I look at a show like Enterprise, especially season 3. They had an end goal in sight, everything built toward that, there were a few episodes that didn't add a whole lot to the arc, but still focused on the goal. Even Pretender, granted the series ended on a cliffhanger, but I think they probably expected to get another season at least out of it. Each Season brought the Centre closer and brought Jarod closer to his family. I'm sure part of it was made up as it went along, but it still had a good frame work.

Having a loose plan in place kinda keeps things on track, especially if you're saying that the series is serialized and every part is a part of a whole and you can tell when a show has some guide and when its just doing it up as it goes along. Even DS9 had something of that for a few seasons, same with Voyager to an extent, but I think it would have been better if they actually stuck to a real plan not just meandered around and then FINALLY come up with a resolution using a Deus Ex Machina.

Those bug me most of all, when the end of the run comes, something 'big' comes in and goes 'okay you're back!" or "Okay problem solved" or "Hey here's the family!" When for how many years they couldn't do it, and then finally dumb stinkin' blind luck comes through.
 
Based on the way Babylon 5 turned out, I'd go with the pre-planned. I always thought it was really cool how they dropped various hints about how the series would end all the way back in the first season.
 
It all comes down to the talent of the writers. Either approach can work if the writers are good. An extremely detailed, pre-planned show will suck if the writers doing it can't handle the pacing, the structure and the characters.
 
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