A “fleet” that doesn’t fight…
- Thread starter FredH
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This is called law enforcement / military.
Why?
Fleets primarily exist for the purpose of administering the activities of the ships operated by a organistation, even purely civilian maritime (and actually automotive logistics) organisations often descripe their assets as a "fleet".
Even in the military context, a "fleet" at its most basic is any collection of ships/vehicles assembled for a common purpose under a single commander, so the transport ships tasked with the evacuation of Romulan territory would have been a "fleet".
The only possible "assumption" is that fleets might be assembled for warfighting and (defense against) invasion... now I would agree that this is likely to be fairly rare (because Space is Big so why take the expansion direction that will result in a fight rather than a different one?) but would suggest that this couldn't happen is a far more fantastical idea than the reverse.
I like to think the Nyberrite Alliance designed and sold many of their ships of this design:
reflectionsonfilmandtelevision.blogspot.com
Memory Bank: Cosmic Clipper (SnapFix; 1981)
reflectionsonfilmandtelevision.blogspot.com
Ex Astris Scientia - Redresses of the Mondor
All re-uses of this versatile alien ship from TNG: "Samaritan Snare"
www.ex-astris-scientia.org
Ex Astris Scientia - Redresses of the Husnock Ship
All appearances and variations of the most often repurposed ship of Star Trek
www.ex-astris-scientia.org
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I think it depends on what kind of show you'd be thinking up. If it's an overpopulated one with belligerents around every corner, then maybe it's the Space Force that goes out. If it's an emptier universe, it's NASA. The military stays closer to home to duke it out with other nation-state militaries, whether from Earth or other planets. The actual exploration is done by peaceful explorers. Maybe the question is whether it's done by a government organization like NASA or a multinational conglomerate like Weyland-Yutani out for money.
Again it's the show you're creating. Weyland-Yutani maybe sticks to nearby planets and systems, whatever can be easily capitalized on. NASA are the dreamers and strivers out to expand the width and breadth of human knowledge. They're the ones going out without a net. The star destroyers are staying close guarding the border from the other guy's star destroyers.
The brilliance of Star Trek is that money's out of the picture. It's not about the military, the private sector, or scientific community but about a future in which they're to some extent one and the same. It's about Humanity going out. Even more, it's about us merging with what's out there to be an even greater Whole, going out even further.
Again it's the show you're creating. Weyland-Yutani maybe sticks to nearby planets and systems, whatever can be easily capitalized on. NASA are the dreamers and strivers out to expand the width and breadth of human knowledge. They're the ones going out without a net. The star destroyers are staying close guarding the border from the other guy's star destroyers.
The brilliance of Star Trek is that money's out of the picture. It's not about the military, the private sector, or scientific community but about a future in which they're to some extent one and the same. It's about Humanity going out. Even more, it's about us merging with what's out there to be an even greater Whole, going out even further.
But what happens if it's more like "FireFly"?
Where it's some random Space Trader / Cargo Hauler / Yahoo in their own Personal StarShip with thier own crew galavanting around?
Think Cristobal Rios, but w/o the back story trauma, a REAL CREW, and space Hijinks while traveling & doing basic business?
They die. Quietly.
lol but no really. If you're going deep into space you need a larger ship with more of an ability to last without supplies for a long time. There probably won't be rest stops or trading outposts like in established space. Also, the aliens, if you meet any, may not have or want anything you do. And that's if you can even understand each other. Forget the Progenitors conveniently populating the galaxy with your distant cousins and imagine Solaris. Or Vorlons. Or strange drones that are impossible to communicate with.
Also, say you get out there, deep, just you and your yahoo crew. Okay, then what? If you're not studying space and reporting back, what's the point? To say you were the first to do it? Meh. And probably a long distance probe probably went out years earlier to see what's out there.
I mean, I think I'm poopooing a bit much here. You could probably make an interesting show with any number of the scenarios I'm going right by. But I mean, if you were going to create something today for the first time, I'd love something that's cutting edge. Less Han Solo, more whatever our modern equivalent of James T. Kirk would be. That is, James the explorer, not James the soldier. We know who James the soldier would be––he's not that far off from us. James the explorer...well, there's less of him these days.
The problem with "James the Explorer" is that we saw him already, it was our "James T. Kirk", he did a great job with it.
Having a different type of explorer (Less Han Solo) is more like watching a YT Vlog video about random Yahoo's going on a Road Trip, but instead of a 'Road Trip', it's a 'Space Trek' out into the unknown.
Why, for the lolz, not because of any noble scientific exploration, just because they can. They'll probably be broadcasting it back to the Federation Galactic Space Internet for others to view.
But outside of that, it's really just for dorking around and seeing what's going on out there.
That was 60 years ago. We need a new one for today who’ll, yes, do it better than that one did.
That could be interesting if we were anywhere near being able to do that. It would be enticing, inspirational. But by the time we are the media will change profoundly. Closer to Neuralink broadcasting the YouTubers experiences directly to the Collective Internet Service.
On its own it kinda rubs me the wrong way. “Oh look idiot YouTubers stirring shit up because they lack other personality. Well it’s nice to know there’s a steroid there anyway.” But maybe I’m being judgmental. Any idea is only as good as its execution and there could be some real fun, even heart, in such a show.
That said, I’m a Trekkie. I want a modern Star Trek. Whether that’s Star Trek (SNW, ACA, whatever comes after), or something closer to reality, (as in this thread thought up today) but with a similar sensibility.
That's what Christopher Pike is for in SNW =D
Remember, "Bandwidth" over SubSpace is still limited when you're far from standardized repeaters & infrastructure.
They had a hard enough time to get Real Time Video Conferencing from the UFP to the Delta Quadrant when Voyager was lost and was able to communicate back thanks to Project PathFinder.
Short of knowing if you have enough SubSpace Relay's nearby, your bandwidth back will probably be very limited if you're out in the boonies / Non-UFP areas.
It depends on which YouTuber you watch. There's such a wide variety to chose from.
Me too! I wouldn't mind more Star Trek, but as the name implies, it's about Treking amongst the Stars.
But we've never seen it from the perspective of normal folks or regular explorers who aren't working with StarFleet.
That would be a PoV that would be interesting IMO.
I think a more interesting thing to explore on Trek would be how new technology and science impact society as a whole.
Life in the Federation (with no money, etc) was never portrayed properly.
Now that the concept is in better spotlight, perhaps the writers can explore it better and for us to see a proper showcasing of how advanced technology impacts/changes society as the Federation.
Perhaps the writers can also get out of their own limitations and introduce some proper 'breakthroughs' for UFP which incorporates development and integration of new tech on a large scale and we see the larger implications not just inside UFP but how it also affects their neighbours.
I mean, the way UFP was portrayed, they should inevitably 'surpass' most of their neighbours in a very short span of time, and we could see multiple other potential stories emerge from this... and perhaps less 'dumbed down' version of stories that don't rely on too much drama to make a point across, but rather write a story in line with more hyper advanced technology and how a society like UFP is navigating it as a whole - not with regular bans etc. or even 'forgetting massively advanced tech' by the next episode, but real implications - long terms ones too.
For instance, take subspace beaming... maybe it was not usable for organic transport in TNG, BUT, inorganic transport would likely still be very useful. It can be used to transport automation and materials so a starbase or ships can be assembled on the spot in remote/distant locations by the time other Warp ships deliver people there to finalize things.
TW beaming should be incorporated already (as opposed to only mentioned) and it wouldn't eliminate the need for ships or exploration.
Why?
Because you cant beam people to remote edges of the galaxy without suitable environments to support life in the first place. You will still need ships to explore nebulae, interstellar phenomena, etc. (the whole reason SF exists)... TW beaming would simply make things a lot easier in known space, and sparingly used for locations that are a greater unknown (until they are better acquainted with it), with ships still being in use.
That's just one thing... QS V2 opens up travel to Andromeda in about 4 to 5 hrs at 10,000 LY's per minute (then there's other closer dwarf galaxies closer to the Milky Way too which can be explored as well)... advancement of UFP to Type III status (technologically they have the ability, but are not really using it)... and from there, you can easily devise other more powerful (or similarly powerful) civilisations in the universe which broadens the story to the local galactic cluster for example or even across the universe eventually.
There's no need in keeping the story confined to the Milky way in itself... because you can create all sorts of new things in new galaxies (there's about 80 of them in the local cluster spread over an area of 10 million ly's... a distance which can be crossed in about 17 to 18 hrs with QS V2 - but again, would be used mainly for massive distances - shorter hops can be reserved to vastly improved Warp (say 9.9 to 9.2 as a standard and QS v1 (300 Ly's per hr for example) - and something else besides M/AM should be already in use by this point.
I mean it would be nice to see the UFP keeping and using the 'nice toys' they actually have been developing or encountered and scanned down to detail, and then expanding the narrative to a greater thing.
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Trust me, me & you would LOVE that kind of story, but the vast majority of folks would find that type of story telling boring.
It's definitely not in the average "Hollywood Writers" wheel house.
I don't necessarilly agree that "No Money" was fully accurate, but that's a discussion for another day.
Talking about that would derail the entire thread and that isn't the point of this thread.
So we'll save that discussion for outside of this thread.
Have you seen the writers that they have? You need far more technologists on their staff if you want them to be able to write a believable show with proper "Break Throughs" in technology that makes it entertaining.
Also, this is "Hollywood Writers", "they want their cake & eat it too".
Having too many "Advanced Tech" wouldn't make for much of a story left to tell.
The problem with SubSpace beaming AKA TransWarp Beaming isn't the organic use part (that part is actually fine), it's multi-factor other issues.
1) It takes a HUGE amount of energy to beam 1 person a LONG ass distance away.
TransWarp Beaming has a HUGE energy requirement and the way he has it setup, it would destroy the TransWarp beaming device attached.
Making it a 1 way trip.
2) What happens if there is something wrong with the transporter sequence and no receiving transporter pad is on the other end?
Your signal gets lost and your particles get scattered. How many times in Trek have we seen Transporter issues and you want to compound it by making it a Super Long Transport, with Nobody on the other end to help?
3) If there is any subspace disturbance / warping of Subspace in the flight path of your TransWarp signal, your signal integrity might get scrambled. The longer the distance you travel, the longer the flight time, the more likely things can go wrong.
We all know Warp Drives manipulate Subspace, random StarShip flies by at the "right moment in time" and your signal gets scattered.
Or some weird subspace phenomena happens and your signal gets scattered.
4) Accuracy of the Targeting Data, especially when your multiple light years away and don't have real time telemetry of the target destination.
If your off by a bit, you could've beamed the person into space, into a rock, into a structure, etc.
Remember, everything in space is moving, short of having direct feed and to account for latency, that's hard to do.
5) Even when Dukat was trying to kidnap Kira Nerys, he had somebody give her a piece of jewlery that had a homing transponder and used that signal to subspace beam her to Empok Nor.
That was still a one-way trip against her will.
There are ALOT of problems just using Subspace beaming.
Anyways, there are plenty of other Teleportation Tech that can be used far more safely at those super long multi-light-year ranges
1) Spatial Trajector
2) TransLocator
3) Inverter (Fix the issue with it doing damage to the organic target at a cellular level)
4) StarGates
See above, but I think TransWarp beaming is more of a "Emergency Beam Out" tool or a way to send in Android or Holographic Drones to scout out the target area before you send in the organic crew.
Or a method for "Covert Ops".
Our Milkyway Galaxy is far larger than most people think it is, despite the 2D map.
Yet you want to explore another galaxy?
We aren't even covering 0.1% of the 3D Volume of exploration.
Let's finish our MilkyWay Galaxy before we talk about visiting others.
It might be interesting, but there is still alot more to do within our own Galaxy.
I agree, but it must be used wisely and not willy nilly.
Nonsense.
The very notion of such a world even possibly existing rests upon scientific, technological and human assumptions that, at their very best, are highly unlikely to ever all exist together - and more likely are completely preposterous.
Skiffy fans all agree that "this could happen!" for no better reason than that they like those stories, which are only tales of magic with "Abracadabra!" written over with "Alcubierre!"
The future is not "The past writ large." The cosmos is not the Mediterranean or Pacific and never will be.
Why?
Space is Big.
Doing anything in space would therefore by definition require multiple crews/vehicles to do so.
The most efficient, logical and plausible way to control and manage this would be to assemble them into at least an administrative organisation (even if individual commanding officers are mostly autonomous on a day-to-day basis) and the most common term used within the maritime and aviation industries is... a fleet.
Star Trek and much other popular space fiction rests on tropes that resonated with American visions of science, history, and technology that held sway in the postwar period up until the 1970s or 80s.
But it's becoming an antique fantasy that will always be with us because it is a fantasy: a way that we'd like the world to be, that it isn't.
But it's becoming an antique fantasy that will always be with us because it is a fantasy: a way that we'd like the world to be, that it isn't.
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