Pre-2009 Star Trek and LGBTQI+ representation: simple disinterest or active hostility?

[Takeru]

I look it at this as Gerrold basically protecting his interests, as the DS9 team was preparing an entire episode built around the Tribbles episode Gerrold had written 30 years before, and using a large amount of footage from it. It's not a bad idea to remind the folks at Paramount that you're still out there and you deserve to get paid for your work.

But that's not what he did, there wasn't even a need to do that, that's what the WGA is for, if he deserves credit or pay for this episode the union would have taken care of it.
What he did was blackmail Berman by threatening to reveal spoilers to the press, I don't see Gerrold as the god guy in this story.

It sounds like if Gerrold hadn't made those calls, Rick Berman would've been perfectly happy to leave David Gerrold out of the loop entirely.

Yeah, but how is that a problem?

I'm starting to learn to just shut up and accept being an evil cis straight white man who is a stain on this Earth and feel ashamed for having been born with the skin color and sexual orientation I was born with. Society tells me I am bad, i'm starting to believe it.

Yes, being a heterosexual white cis men, what a cross to bear.
You had a few bad experiences with people who want to see discrimination, that does not make you part of a disadvantaged group.

 

[evilchumlee]

Yes, being a heterosexual white cis men, what a cross to bear.

Sort of proved my point right there.

*shares grievance*
"Shut up, whitey".

Tolerance, am I right?

And with that, all apologies, I know when to quit now. I'll leave everyone to it and retire from this thread. Thanks all.

 

[UssGlenn]

One thing I can think of to enhance them is to borrow the Klingon costumes from Into Darkness.

It think if they had just had the actors dub over their lines without the fake teeth, even if they were still speaking Klingon, it would have been worlds better. I assume that since there were subtitles, they thought it was unnecessary, but the mumbling and slurring was just distracting.

 

[Oddish]

Yes, being a heterosexual white cis men, what a cross to bear.

Should be saying able-bodied, able-minded heterosexual white cis man, right? And obviously, because you didn't add in disabilities to that statement... OH MY FREAKING GOODNESS! YOU'RE AN INSENSITIVE ABLEIST!!!

 

[BK613]

sigh. I wish we had a few more Federation diplomats speaking for LBGT+ rights rather than all these self-righteous SJWs. A minority will always need help from the majority in securing and keeping its rights so more persuasion and less alienation, okay?

 

[Oddish]

I'm no SJW. Just a sarcastic prick.

 

[BK613]

I'm no SJW. Just a sarcastic prick.

I notice that you didn't deny 'self-righteous'... but not really aimed at you.

 

[Jayson1]

sigh. I wish we had a few more Federation diplomats speaking for LBGT+ rights rather than all these self-righteous SJWs. A minority will always need help from the majority in securing and keeping its rights so more persuasion and less alienation, okay?

We do or did. They were called classic liberals. But they became Nazi's do to The Overton Window so now well rounded and nuance debate over the issue, and frankly all issues has given way to emotional outrage fulled by polarizing clickbait you can find in everything from your random Youtube TikTok video to places that where once legit places for real news such as the New York TImes or CNN. The goal is to keep everyone angry and dumb constantly because that is what drives social media because that is where all the money to be made is at.

The reality is every positive and progressive change that has happened in this country has happened because of socially progressive moderates being able to work with conservative, but not regressive moderates to find ways to get things done that helps people. Same in regards to debate over economics as well. Once in awhile extremist do serve a purpose in bringing light to some issues that fall between the cracks but any actually change to make those things better still happens because of the moderates.

 

[BillJ]

You had a few bad experiences with people who want to see discrimination, that does not make you part of a disadvantaged group.

It can be dangerous to brush off a group’s complaints. No matter what one thinks of them. I think that is how we got to the point we’re at in the US.

 

[evilchumlee]

The reality is every positive and progressive change that has happened in this country has happened because of socially progressive moderates being able to work with conservative, but not regressive moderates to find ways to get things done that helps people. Same in regards to debate over economics as well. Once in awhile extremist do serve a purpose in bringing light to some issues that fall between the cracks but any actually change to make those things better still happens because of the moderates.

Came back for one more comment here only to say, ^ this. Perfectly well said. It's what i've wanted to articulate, but could not.

Extremism just breeds more extremism on the opposing side. The harder one side pushes, the harder the other side will dig in and vice versa. And the extremists run the real possibility of pushing their moderate supporters away. As a moderate liberal, I feel this in my core.

 

[UssGlenn]

The harder one side pushes, the harder the other side will dig in and vice versa.

Newtons 3rd law of politics.

 

[fireproof78]

The reality is every positive and progressive change that has happened in this country has happened because of socially progressive moderates being able to work with conservative, but not regressive moderates to find ways to get things done that helps people. Same in regards to debate over economics as well. Once in awhile extremist do serve a purpose in bringing light to some issues that fall between the cracks but any actually change to make those things better still happens because of the moderates.

Damn straight!

 

[Oddish]

Extremism just breeds more extremism on the opposing side. The harder one side pushes, the harder the other side will dig in and vice versa. And the extremists run the real possibility of pushing their moderate supporters away. As a moderate liberal, I feel this in my core.

And as a moderate conservative, I feel as you do. Liberal bullying has only made me more passionate about opposing their agenda, and ultra conservativism has left me feeling very much adrift.

 

[BillJ]

And as a moderate conservative, I feel as you do. Liberal bullying has only made me more passionate about opposing their agenda, and ultra conservativism has left me feeling very much adrift.

Don't forget that Conservative bullying!

 

[UssGlenn]

And as a moderate conservative, I feel as you do. Liberal bullying has only made me more passionate about opposing their agenda, and ultra conservativism has left me feeling very much adrift.

I've gotten much more liberal in the last 10 years. Some of the shift is simply from life experience, but it also has had way more to do with the Republican Party going batshit insane than any action by the Democratic establishment.

 

[BillJ]

I've gotten much more liberal in the last 10 years. Some of the shift is simply from life experience, but it also has had way more to do with the Republican Party going batshit insane than any action by the Democratic establishment.

I'm Center-Left. Used to be a Democrat, but now I'm a homeless political entity.

 

[1001001]

Okay once again Star Trek is no longer the topic.

At this point, I’m going to suggest if you wish to continue this debate/discussion, someone start a thread in Miscellaneous. That’s the correct forum for this topic.

Thanks.

Closing