Potential Canonical Sticking Point

[Kryton]

Okay, one of the suggested plot points is Nimoy-Spock traveling back in time to interact with Quinto-Spock. Which would imply that the younger Spock was exposed to time travel very early on.

But IIRC, in TOS Spock said something to the effect that time travel is "theoretically possible" even though the Vulcan Science Academy has rejected the concept ("The Naked Time", possibly).

Now that's NOT an immediate cancellation of the film's concept...TOS Spock could well have been speaking in half-truths to protect Kirk's future. But it could also be a possible canon conflict.

 

[Michael]

I don't remember Spock saying that. (Well certainly not in the episode The Naked Time – I just rewatched that one recently.) Wasn't that T'Pol who always said "the Vulcan Science Academy has rejected the concept of time travel"?

 

[Kryton]

That was supposed to be lip-service to what Spock once said on TOS. It may have been "City..." instead I'm thinking of, but still...

 

[Lieut. Arex]

Spock mentions a theoretical relationship between time and antimatter in "The Naked Time", which is accurate as antimatter can be treated as normal matter moving backwards in time. There's no "time travel is impossible" line in the series; that's strictly from T'Pol in ENT.

 

[Kryton]

Which makes in non-canonical, AFAIC.

 

[CaptainWacky]

Young Spock's memory of the encounter with Old Spock could be erased by a mind meld at the end of the movie. NEXT.

 

[Flake]

Its clear to me that the whole time travelling aspect of the movie will create a new timeline that diverges from the one we are familiar with. Not only does this mean that canon is no longer an issue but they could even kill off a character for good in one of the movies if they wished.

I would prefer they did this and made it clear that they have done it. For example instead of knowing all the characters and the ship will survive (because of the series and subsequent movies) no matter what happens we will not know what happens because this is a new timeline.

 

[ancient]

The problem is, we certainly don't know the whole story, so it's really hard to say how much canon is affected.

 

[pookha]

well if like some one takes the animated yesteryear as canon young spock already encountered a adult spock even though he didnt know it at the time.
perhaps young spock isnt aware it is the older spock but rather a return of this "cousin" he encountered earlier. or perhaps even another remote relative.
i could see the older spock taking that percaution in telling younger spock a certain amount of info without disclosing just who is is the his younger self.
talk about tangled webs

 

[M'Sharak]

I don't remember Spock saying that. (Well certainly not in the episode The Naked Time – I just rewatched that one recently.) Wasn't that T'Pol who always said "the Vulcan Science Academy has rejected the concept of time travel"?

Spock mentions a theoretical relationship between time and antimatter in "The Naked Time", which is accurate as antimatter can be treated as normal matter moving backwards in time. There's no "time travel is impossible" line in the series; that's strictly from T'Pol in ENT.

Correct. What Spock said is that:

There is an intermix formula.
[...]
It's never been tested.
It's a theoretical relationship between time and antimatter.

There is no mention of the Vulcan Science Directorate.

From ENT "Shockwave, Part 2":

T'POL: The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible.

But she also said:
"Science Vulcan Directorate has determined that time travel is... not fair."

You make the call.

 

[Michael]

^ Geek™

 

[M'Sharak]

You have no idea...

 

[Avilos]

Isn't it easier to assume it is an new continuity? New actors and all. This is the "universe next door". So perhaps in TOS history the events to the movie actually did happen. But all the necessary differences are not present. That way the film can still give insight into these classic characters. But without the need to needlessly fit every minor detail.

Or think of these as the legends told about the crew years and years later in the future. Not just the new movie but all the episodes and the movies. The basics are true. But when the finer details don't fit together its because the storyteller had incomplete info.

 

[M'Sharak]

Isn't it easier to assume it is an new continuity?
[...]
But without the need to needlessly fit every minor detail.

But where would be the fun in that? Mental gymnastics to resolve apparent inconsistencies in canon have always been part of the game; I think the thought exercises are the main reason some people have remained fans for as long as they have: because it isn't all neatly tied up with a bow, no matter how much some would have you believe it is (or should be.)

Or think of these as the legends told about the crew years and years later in the future. Not just the new movie but all the episodes and the movies. The basics are true. But when the finer details don't fit together its because the storyteller had incomplete info.

Even when TOS was all there was, we had that. Why should this be treated differently?

 

[ancient]

It's definitely a new version of Trek.

 

[Michael]

But where would be the fun in that? Mental gymnastics to resolve apparent inconsistencies in canon have always been part of the game; I think the thought exercises are the main reason some people have remained fans for as long as they have: because it isn't all neatly tied up with a bow, no matter how much some would have you believe it is (or should be.)

I couldn't agree more. Finding and debating all the little inconsistencies is one of the funniest aspects of being a Trek fan.

 

[Zeppster]

How can we know anything about the movie without seeing it? Lets at least till there's actual trailers to judge anything.

 

[Michael]

How can we know anything about the movie without seeing it? Lets at least till there's actual trailers to judge anything.

Just like our future forum motto says: We're just "wasting time until May 2009".

 

[Temis the Vorta]

They could also be using Lost rules of time travel, namely that that Spock didn't know about time travel because the meeting with his future self hadn't happened yet. (Meaning time travel creates multiple timelines, it's not just one immutable timeline where young Spock always meets old Spock in the past).

If that had been said by Spock and not T'Pol.

I don't think Star Trek has ever settled on what rules of time travel they're using - single timeline, multiple timelines or what. Single leads to impossible-to-reconcile inconsistencies and multiple leads to the who-cares problem (are these the real characters, and what does real mean?)

 

[ITL]

Maybe most of the movie is set in a divergent timeline (or multiple timelines) created by the actions of Nero or Spock which has slight canonical and cosmetic differences to the one we know for internally logical reasons - and when the story is resolved we end up back in a canonical TOS timeline that looks exactly like TOS down to the smallest detail.

*tumbleweed*

OK, so it's a new or original contribution to this forum, I know...lol