Spoilers Post-Coda novelverse

[ryan123450]

I’m loving this idea. I may adopt this in my head canon. Depends on how everything in Coda plays out. I doubt that it will happen, but I’d be thrilled if the temporal phenomenon that leads to Picard playing out after Coda also somehow resulted in Discovery too.

 

[Charles Phipps]

For what it's worth, JoeZhang reports his interpretation of that plotline as fact, and it emphatically is not. I am as pro-choice as anyone (and I suspect Kirsten Beyer is too, actually; the Protectors / Acts of Contrition / Atonement trilogy clearly enough says what she thinks about current conservative trends in America) and I saw that story as something totally different. I saw it as fundamentally changing the current situation - what if embryos could be viable outside a woman much earlier? - and then telling a very human story of people trying to come to terms with the right choice to make. It's never even remotely hinted that they shouldn't have that choice themselves.

The concept has been dealt with before by sci-fi authors with the uterine replicators of the Vorkosigan Saga. Which, I am just plugging here because it's awesome.

 

[Mister Spock]

The novelverse that we know and like could only come about because we lacked new televised Trek for a dozen years. I certainly liked most of the stories we got and the novelverse generally, but it was a phenomenon that could only exist because the larger franchise was dormant. More, it was something that most fans did not pick up.

Doctor Who fans went through this in 2005.

Since 1991, there'd been a steady range of continuing adventures for the Doctor. Because it was no longer confined to Saturday afternoons on BBC 1, this meant that the books could explore mature subject matters and concepts, as well as form complex story arcs that sometimes took years to play out.

Then the series comes back, the continuing novels were wound up, and the new tie-in books become standalone adventures featuring the current incarnation and his companions, written with a younger audience in mind. For some readers it was quite the culture shock.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Doctor Who fans went through this in 2005.

Since 1991, there'd been a steady range of continuing adventures for the Doctor. Because it was no longer confined to Saturday afternoons on BBC 1, this meant that the books could explore mature subject matters and concepts, as well as form complex story arcs that sometimes took years to play out.

Then the series comes back, the continuing novels were wound up, and the new tie-in books become standalone adventures featuring the current incarnation and his companions, written with a younger audience in mind. For some readers it was quite the culture shock.

Yes, I remember a friend explaining that Doctor Who's novels were all about the DARKER and EDGIER subject matter. Also how the Cthulhu Mythos was now canon. And I was like, "Why would someone do that?"

Later I'd read a few and thought they were able to explore the universe in fascinating original ways.

 

[Veeza]

Since 1991, there'd been a steady range of continuing adventures for the Doctor. Because it was no longer confined to Saturday afternoons on BBC 1, this meant that the books could explore mature subject matters and concepts, as well as form complex story arcs that sometimes took years to play out.

And it’s now incredibly hard for someone (like me) to go back and read the ongoing DW novels released between ‘91 and ‘05 due to both the Virgin books and BBC books being out of print.

Apart from a handful I’ve found at used book stores, the online prices are incredibly high with the more popular ones fetching in the high hundreds ($).

I’m really hoping they eventually get all put back out for kindle - to be honest not sure why they are not? One of the pleasures of the Trek LITVERSE since ‘99 is they are all still available on e-book for very reasonable prices if not outright bargains!

 

[Brendan Moody]

Doctor Who novelists, unlike Star Trek novelists, keep their own copyrights, so e-book rereleases would require re-negotiation for every single title. Not impossible, but not necessarily worth the effort from a financial perspective.

 

[Charles Phipps]

Doctor Who novelists, unlike Star Trek novelists, keep their own copyrights, so e-book rereleases would require re-negotiation for every single title. Not impossible, but not necessarily worth the effort from a financial perspective.

I actually tried to arrange for all of the Vampire: The Masquerade books being re-released on Kindle by putting Paradox in touch with Crossroad Press. I managed to get the Clan Novels reprinted but it proved a lot more difficult than expected because it turned out the original files were gone and every individual book had to be scanned and gone over page by page. These are the kind of things you run into.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

New novels in the Enterprise era would be wonderful.

Indeed. I'm all for more Rise of the Federation novels.

And as far as I know, the existing ROTF series can still be considered part of the "new" novelverse, can't they? There's nothing I'm aware of in DSC or PIC that contradicts them.

 

[Charles Phipps]

I suspect only the Post-Nemesis Relaunch novels are going to be considered alt-canon (instead of non-canon) or retroactively undone via Coda because they're the only things that are going to be probably contradicted by Picard and Prodigy since it is tackling Voyager's crew now.

Vanguard and New Frontier aren't going to be contradicted and I don't think there's any plans for a Post-Enterprise series.

Mind you, the biggest offense so far is Starfleet Corps of Engineers getting affected by Lower Decks. HOW COULD YOU, LOWER DECKS?

 

[Christopher]

I suspect only the Post-Nemesis Relaunch novels are going to be considered alt-canon (instead of non-canon) or retroactively undone via Coda because they're the only things that are going to be probably contradicted by Picard and Prodigy since it is tackling Voyager's crew now.

Don't forget Strange New Worlds, which has the potential to contradict Vanguard, Rise of the Federation, my TOS continuity, etc. Heck, Prodigy's Medusan character will probably contradict what I established about the Medusans in The Higher Frontier. And any show in any era could depict, say, the Tzenkethi in a way totally unlike their novel version.

As I often point out, it's the inevitable fate of all science fiction to eventually be contradicted by new discoveries or simply the calendar catching up. It should be assumed the same goes for any tie-ins to an ongoing franchise.

 

[DEWLine]

And the Brikar showing up on Prodigy possibly contradicting New Frontier, as well...?

 

[Mister Spock]

Doctor Who novelists, unlike Star Trek novelists, keep their own copyrights, so e-book rereleases would require re-negotiation for every single title. Not impossible, but not necessarily worth the effort from a financial perspective.

This.

It would be too much hassle for so little gain on the part of the BBC, especially as the novels from 1991 to 1997 were published under license from Virgin. They'd have to renogtiate a contract with every author - some of whom have vanished (Christopher Bulis), uncooperative (Lawrence MIles) or sadly dead (Craig Hinton and Terrance Dicks).

 

[Veeza]

This.

It would be too much hassle for so little gain on the part of the BBC, especially as the novels from 1991 to 1997 were published under license from Virgin. They'd have to renogtiate a contract with every author - some of whom have vanished (Christopher Bulis), uncooperative (Lawrence MIles) or sadly dead (Craig Hinton and Terrance Dicks).

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

 

[Mister Spock]

Thanks for the info - much appreciated.

You're welcome.

Probably doesn't help much, but BBC did a range of reprints a few years ago.

The Anniversary Collection (2013)
Ten Little Aliens by Stephen Cole (1st Doctor, Polly & Ben)
Dreams of Empire by Justin Richards (2nd Doctor, Jamie & Victoria)
Last of the Gaderene by Mark Gatiss (3rd Doctor & Jo)
Festival of Death by Jonathan Morris (4th Doctor & Romana II)
Fear of the Dark by Trevor Baxendale (5th Doctor, Nyssa & Tegan)
Players by Terrance Dicks (6th Doctor & Peri)
Remembrance of the Daleks by Ben Aaronovitch (7th Doctor & Ace)
Earthworld by Jacqueline Rayner (8th Doctor, Fitz & Anji)
Only Human by Gareth Roberts (9th Doctor, Rose & Jack)
Beautiful Chaos by Gary Russell (10th Doctor & Donna)
The Silent Stars Go By by Dan Abnett (11th Doctor, Amy & Rory)

The Monster Collection (2014)
Corpse Marker by Chris Boucher (4th Doctor & Leela)
Shakedown by Terrance Dicks (7th Doctor, Bernice, Roz & Chris)
Sting of the Zygons by Stephen Cole (10th Doctor & Martha)
Prisoner of the Daleks by Trevor Baxendale (10th Doctor)
The Scales of Injustice by Gary Russell (3rd Doctor & Liz)
Illegal Alien by Mike Tucker & Robert Perry (7th Doctor & Ace)
Touched by an Angel by Jonathan Morris (11th Doctor, Amy & Rory)
The Sands of Time by Justin Richards (5th Doctor, Nyssa & Tegan)

The History Collection (2015)
The Stone Rose by Jacqueline Rayner (10th Doctor & Rose)
The Roundheads by Mark Gatiss (2nd Doctor, Polly, Ben & Jamie)
The Witch Hunters by Steve Lyons (1st Doctor, Susan, Barbara & Ian)
Dead of Winter by James Goss (11th Doctor, Amy & Rory)
Human Nature by Paul Cornell (7th Doctor & Bernice)
The English Way of Death by Gareth Roberts (4th Doctor & Romana II)
The Shadow in the Glass by Justin Richards & Stephen Cole (6th Doctor)
Amorality Tale by David Bishop (3rd Doctor & Sarah-Jane)

 

[Veeza]

Probably doesn't help much, but BBC did a range of reprints a few years ago.

Massive help - thanks. Looks like these are on Kindle and Audible (I either read or listen to books depending on my work commitments). Hopefully more reprints to come!

As for my thoughts on the future of the Trek Novelverse I can't see it doing much other than 1-2 tie in per show (Discovery/Picard/SNW) and a couple of TOS books which always seem to be released regardless of the current situation.

I guess this is due to the fact that they want the tie-ins to be relevant to what's currently airing to maximise revenue. Which is kind of weird as the customers who have bought Trek books over the last 20+ years were/are interested in the continutity the books built and it seems like a market to continue them would be there?

Anyway as I have just started a read through of the flowchart I have enough to keep me going for a while

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

I mean, we’re getting our first in series novels for TNG and DS9 this year, so there will surely be at least SOMETHING there as well. Obviously, they won’t be an ongoing advancing narrative, but that doesn’t rule out things like, for instance, individual authors weaving an ongoing arc within their stories in a particular series.

Right now, there are seven series that have tie in novels, and SNW tie ins are all but guaranteed, bumping that to eight. This production year has had eight novel slots, so that’s theoretically room for one novel per series next year. That may not be the case in practice, but the novel line does not seem like it’s ONLY going to be about in-production shows and TOS.

And, in bringing the same authors forward, since they’re reliable authors for the franchise, I don’t see why the current crop would end up vanishing entirely from the author pool or the editors would stop hiring them, there will surely be some callbacks or acknowledgments and references to the novels of the past, because things like worldbuilding of cultures aren’t instantly invalidated because of new shows being produced.

 

[Christopher]

I guess this is due to the fact that they want the tie-ins to be relevant to what's currently airing to maximise revenue. Which is kind of weird as the customers who have bought Trek books over the last 20+ years were/are interested in the continutity the books built and it seems like a market to continue them would be there?

Any long-established fanbase will inevitably suffer attrition over time, due to loss of interest, life changes, etc., so it's always important to appeal to new and general audiences, to try to expand the readership/viewership rather than aim narrowly at a single finite, shrinking group.

And continuity is not all-important. There have always been multiple different continuities in Trek tie-ins, and they're not competing or mutually exclusive. There are plenty of novelverse fans who also read the IDW comics or play Star Trek Online, or who loved the Crucible trilogy or the Shatnerverse. People come to Trek tie-ins for the characters and concepts and themes, not merely for continuity. Or they come to it for the authors they like. So of course the novelverse audience won't just abandon the books en masse. They'll still want to read stories about Kirk and Picard and Janeway and whoever, no matter what continuity they're in. A few people might lose interest, but like I said, the established audience always suffers attrition anyway, which is why it's essential to invite in new audiences.

And, in bringing the same authors forward, since they’re reliable authors for the franchise, I don’t see why the current crop would end up vanishing entirely from the author pool or the editors would stop hiring them, there will surely be some callbacks or acknowledgments and references to the novels of the past, because things like worldbuilding of cultures aren’t instantly invalidated because of new shows being produced.

Why would they stop using the authors? Plenty of authors write in multiple different continuities, even within a single franchise. Editors don't pick authors because they've worked within a certain continuity, but because they know the authors can be relied on to do good, consistent work and meet their deadlines.

 

[DGCatAniSiri]

Why would they stop using the authors? Plenty of authors write in multiple different continuities, even within a single franchise. Editors don't pick authors because they've worked within a certain continuity, but because they know the authors can be relied on to do good, consistent work and meet their deadlines.

Right, that was what I was getting at - there's no reason to stop hiring the authors who've contributed to the continuity we've had, who've built up the various backgrounds of various elements that feature in the Litverse - species, organizations, etc. - and so there's every reason to believe that, so long as there's no contradiction with anything in on screen Trek as it evolves, there could be references to things from the Litverse's continuity in forthcoming books, particularly when they're writing, specifically.

 

[Christopher]

Right, that was what I was getting at - there's no reason to stop hiring the authors who've contributed to the continuity we've had, who've built up the various backgrounds of various elements that feature in the Litverse - species, organizations, etc. - and so there's every reason to believe that, so long as there's no contradiction with anything in on screen Trek as it evolves, there could be references to things from the Litverse's continuity in forthcoming books, particularly when they're writing, specifically.

The one doesn't necessarily follow from the other. Like I said, lots of writers work in multiple continuities. I, for one, enjoy creating different original SF universes with different histories and physics and alien species and so forth, getting to play with different, contrasting possibilities. So, yeah, some writers might choose to incorporate novelverse elements into the new stuff where it's feasible, like Christine Vale showing up in the Picard novel, but other writers might welcome the opportunity to try something new and different.

 

[The Wormhole]

I guess this is due to the fact that they want the tie-ins to be relevant to what's currently airing to maximise revenue. Which is kind of weird as the customers who have bought Trek books over the last 20+ years were/are interested in the continutity the books built and it seems like a market to continue them would be there?

The purpose of tie-in novels is to be a supplement of the property it's based on. Now that there's new Star Trek shows in production, it makes more sense to focus on publishing tie-in novels related to them that fans of the show can read then it does to focus on developed continuities based on shows that ended twenty years ago. TOS novels will still be around because they've always been the best selling Trek novels, so it would be silly to turn away that source of revenue.