I cant remember the name of the episode (perhaps "The Swarm" because that's what the aliens called themselves) but they assaulted a shuttle crew and left a map in the computer with a message that said KEEP OUT. They also had a detector grid around their space to spot incoming ships that they had to figure a way to fool. That is not some vaguely defined border, but a clear military obstruction. During Voyagers violation of their space they sent vessels to deal with the invaders, as is their right, during which Voyager destroyed dozens of their 2 to 4 person ships.
It's true that a shuttle with Tom and B'Elanna is attacked at the beginning of the show, but they do not leave a map or a message that says 'keep out'.
The two attackers do talk amongst themselves, but their language is so different that the universal translator can't understand it.
Voyager does seem to have a map of the region and I'm guessing they scanned the area because the show mentiones absolutely nothing about the map you mention (yep, I had to watch that episode yesterday just to see which of this was correct).
Janeway does decide to cross their space, but I don't think you can call it an invation or that she's invading. She tries to communicate, but without much luck. There is a place that will only take them 4 days to cross and that's what they intend to do. Invading implies meaning to cause harm and she doesn't. In fact when they are attacked she orderes a warning shot, but specifies not to destroy any of the ships.
You also mention that these alien ships carry 2-4 people. They are definitely small ships, but the show does not specify how many are on it. There could be one, two, three...or none. They could be completely automated. You're assuming here, not stating fact.
Janeway does finally defend herself, but again she has little choice. It was either that or die, and it would have been an awfully boring last 5 seasons if Voyager had been destroyed at the beginning of the third season.
Most of the episode is actually about the doctor's program suddenly malfunctioning. His memory is degrading and their only initial solution is to restart him. Kes refuses to let that happen and Janeway agrees that they owe him to try to find another solution first, and in this she shows one of the sides that I love so much about her. She cares!!!
*steps off soapbox*
Whether we would call it an invasion or not, the swarm seem to consider it one. Yes Janeway was fighting because Voyager was attacked, but if an armed intruder breaks into your house and you attack them and they kill you that is murder, not self defense. And Voyager qualifies as a very heavily armed intruder.
I have not seen the episode in years, I knew they had a map and enough info to know they were not wanted in these peoples space. Saying that it will only take four days to cross is irrelevant. If you come to a trespassers will be shot sign, and say "I just want to cut across the property, it will only take five minutes and I don't feel like taking an hour to walk around" and then you kill the property owner because he came after you with a gun you have committed murder.
Entering someones territory against their wishes and killing them when they take exception is WRONG. In Star Trek it is a violation of the regs to enter another races space against their wishes. If there had been a reason, such as rescueing a crew member or some such then their would be extenuating circumstances. "I don't feel like being delayed by these aliens irrational desire not to have aliens in their space" is not a valid reason. (And yes I know she never said that specifically, but that was her attitude. And you can tell that was her attitude because if it wasn't then Voyager would have gone around.)
I say 2-4 people because 2 came aboard from the first ship, and while they may have left their ship empty, they may not have. As you say there is no way to know. I find it highly unlikely that they were all drone ships. If they had no life aboard it probably would have been mentioned so the crew would seem less murderous, in fact they probably should have used that dodge. Another sign that the writers were just being lazy for that episode.
As I mentioned in the post that you qouted only part of, the swarm part was the B story. The A story was the EMH story you mentioned. I also mentioned in my next post that that was probably why the writers were so lazy with it, it was just supposed to provide some action and leave Kes on her own to deal with the problem.
I find it interesting that so many of the defenders of this incident use terms like "she probably realized that" or "They could be". I try to stick to the facts of what happened (as best I remember them from many years ago) rather than use maybes that don't change the fact of what happened, or the culpability of the CO for what happened.
So basically, it's like a farmer shouting at some ramblers/hikers "ge' ov m' laaaaaaand" and then firing some pot shots to emphasis the point......
I can understand the relevance of why the OP asked for ones gender, even though it may seem a bit, well pointless as what's the point? To prove that all men hate her and all women love her? But no, as a man who is very open minded about his sexuality and counts himself just about straight, I don't see why if one is heterosexual, bi sexual or homosexual has any relevance.
And that may be a moot point now, but I felt like answering this before reading a further three pages on the topic
Not the OP, but fwiw I do think there's more to be gotten out of threads like this than gender-blaming that 'all men hate her and all women love her". (I hate sentences that start with 'all men' or 'all women' anyway, because with the exception of tautologies they're almost always going to misrepresent somebody).
What I think could probably be argued from the numbers is that it's worth looking at how important Janeway is to the subset of Trek fen who are women as opposed to the overall numbers.
We live in a patriarchal society. That's simple fact. 'The patriarchy' != 'men'. It's simply a cultural system in which we all live and to which we all contribute where we accept it as standard (even better than average) that in the forty years of televised Trek, of the 50 leading characters across five crews, only 14 were women. (And more of them failed to last the whole run of their series than their male counterparts, slightly widening the discrepency.)
Janeway's the only woman at the big captain's table along with four men. Given that, combined with the fact that Voy aired to a real-world audience where gender is a significant problem in advancement to top positions in so many sectors, the writers dropping the ball on Janeway is a bigger deal than bad writing for Archer. (
Point illustrated by xkcd)
So I think now and again talking about how the audience received Janeway is worth doing. It probably is easier in general for men to be unaware of all the extra baggage connected with 'Janeway-bashing' than it is for women. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of legitimate reasons for disliking Janeway as a character. Just that there's nothing wrong with now and again calling attention to the elephant in the room that is the gender-imbalance in televised Trek, and examining the place of vocal Janeway-hate in that context.
Thank you very much for the insight there and brilliant use of
xkcd there, I actually remember seeing that one, not their funniest, but still funny in a horrifyingly true way.
Anyway, I digress.
All your points you raised I'm fully aware of. I count myself as a femininst, last year at university (before I dropped out) I began work on a documentary on feminsim for men as to be honest, their are men out there who believe all the old cliched generalisations on persons who count themselves as one. It's a horrible truth, the glass ceilling exsists and I won't say were as, I'm sure you know and I might get a few points wrong.
Now, I actually respect the PTB at
Paramount who thought it would be worth while to have a female captain on a full series, the problem for me, like pretty much all of
Voyager; was exercution, for the first few seasons untill
Jeri Taylor left,
Janeways characterisation was pretty much consistant, but after she left, were there any women as staff writers, and as I guess there weren't it shows, as they didn't know how to write her. Where as, say with the
CSI franchise, or with
Joss Whedon's Buffy or
Firefly (I never got into
Angel and havn't seen any
Dollhouse yet) the female writers arn't sat at the kiddies table and on
CSI Miami, one of the worlds most viewed programmes was created by two women and they remain on staff as Exec Producers.
It's kind of strange, the other night I was watching
NCIS on
Five here and most adverts are aimed at women (whether it's a god awful thrush advert or a healthy eating one) and my brother whos 18 asked me, why do they advertise them while this is on. I must admit, I laughed at him, I asked him, why do you think they do and he replied that it's cheaper air time, which could I guess be a reason, or as I told him,
NCIS for what ever reason is viewed by more men than women.
So, somewhere in there is a point, not sure what it is, but I assure you there is one.
Clarification: This poll is not part of some "clever plot" to make people admit this, that or the other thing. As previously stated it isn't even my original idea but I agreed with
ktek that the results would be interesting - if only to see if certain assumptions made around here are true or not.
As for sexual orientation the question isn't about whether or not you'd do her it's quite simply do you like her?
'Nuff said.
I would never assume it would be a clever plot to reveal who actually liked her or not, I've gone on record that after rewatching
Voyager recently, I have a new found likness of the programme, it had it's problems, but is anything perfect? I'm just indifferent on her death and even though I've read the replys in the now closed thread on the topic, I kind of comprehend why some individuals have gotten (I can't think of a better term here) so worked up over her death. the way I see it now is that it's to do with male privalige, I'm so used to male leads that I'm used to it.
As for someones sexuality, again, I never assumed it was a case if someone would "do her" or not, I just don't get why it would be important in the first place.
Fair enough - we all have different tastes and I'm not going to argue that one further. 
