Poll: Abby or Jessica?

[ShamelessMcBundy]

One last thing: TITS!

 

[greenguy]

For having sex with, yes.

For saying she is cute, no.

Nothing in the world wrong with saying she is cute, pretty, a good looking women, etc..... Holy cow, have we gotten to the stage in our society where we cannot simply admire beauty without having to have a sexual connotation to it?

Are you honestly going to try maintain that this poll/thread has zero sexual connotation to it, and it is just here to "admire beauty" without any of that? And she's not a woman.

 

[Amaris]

Yeah, when the guy who's user name is "Shameless" thinks you've crossed the line, it's definitely time to re-examine.

Understandable. However, every perspective can be different. Do I think these girls should be sexualized? No. However, my opinion on the matter has little effect for the simple reason that the girls are now, at their age, sexual in nature. They exhibit all the biological characteristics thereof. Which means this issue is social in it's relevancy.

Does that mean if I were the father of either of these girls I'd be fine with an adult male sexualizing them? Most certainly not, and from that perspective I fully understand the reticence. However, saying that these girls are "cute" or "pretty" is not necessarily sexual to the point of intimacy or what it would imply.

I make these points because Shameless posted that this thread and it's stated purpose was "gross". In essence, he felt that calling a 16 year old pretty or cute has a sexual intent, and often it can. However, let us examine another point.

Suppose the author of this thread were 17 years of age. Would it be gross for him to sexualize either of these girls? What if he were 18? At 18 he is an adult under the (U.S./U.K./Aus) law. Is it still gross?

You see, "gross" is a very large generalization. It is why I responded to his post with a more narrow definition. By using the general term and applying it wholesale to the thread, he throws the net over everyone.

To put a finer point on it, if I were to show you two pictures, one of an 18 year old male and one of a 16 year old male, how well do you think you could differentiate between the two?

It all comes down to perspective. You, Shameless, Dukat's Major and others who feel that the idea of this thread is gross, are quite free to feel that way. However, there is a secondary condemnation of every person who does not feel it is gross, and that is not acceptable.

Even people like me, who only find the girls cute on a platonic level, would be cast under the net Shameless created with the earlier generalization. The thread simply had not gone far enough to establish a purely sexual nature in the intent of the OP.

Abby Sunderland is under the age of consent in the state which she lives, and she is under the legal age of adulthood in the federal jurisdiction she lives. Also, 17-18 is a world of difference from 19-20-21 especially when the person in question is a whopping 16 and the lines have already been drawn.

For having sex with, yes.

For saying she is cute, no.

Nothing in the world wrong with saying she is cute, pretty, a good looking women, etc..... Holy cow, have we gotten to the stage in our society where we cannot simply admire beauty without having to have a sexual connotation to it?

Agreed. We might be making the same point.

 

[Brent]

For having sex with, yes.

For saying she is cute, no.

Nothing in the world wrong with saying she is cute, pretty, a good looking women, etc..... Holy cow, have we gotten to the stage in our society where we cannot simply admire beauty without having to have a sexual connotation to it?

Are you honestly going to try maintain that this poll/thread has zero sexual connotation to it, and it is just here to "admire beauty" without any of that? And she's not a woman.

Yes, why should it have to? It depends how each poster responds and what they mean by cute.

Why should we assume that saying someone is "cute" has to be sexual? Why should that be the default assumption?

I think our society is so screwed up. We push sex in every avenue of our lives, its all over the media, so we just assume that sex is the default thought pattern now.

 

[scotpens]

Both of these girls display the secondary gender characteristics that many people will find attractive (clear skin, breasts, curves,

Secondary SEX characteristics. Sex is biological. Gender is psychological, sociological, or grammatical.

I never use 'cute' in a sexual sense, maybe because I am a woman.

Well, maybe you don't, but lots of women will describe an attractive guy as “cute.” Especially if he's young. And short.

Nothing in the world wrong with saying she is cute, pretty, a good looking women, etc..... Holy cow, have we gotten to the stage in our society where we cannot simply admire beauty without having to have a sexual connotation to it?

People nowadays just have FILTHY MINDS! Jeez, I can't believe the can of worms I opened up here.

FWIW, I think Jessica is much prettier than Abby. And that doesn't make me a dirty old man.

 

[Brent]

I think Abby is prettier than Jessica

 

[Miss Chicken]

Ah, but your partner was also probably 16. If someone my age (25) had sex with someone that's 16, that person would probably be going to jail.

Are you being purposely obtuse?

Nope. I lost my virginity to a 20 year old. At 17 I had a 26 year old boyfriend. At 18 I married a 25 year old.

I admit this was 35 years ago when it was considered quite normal for girls to get married as teenagers and often to men in the early to mid-20s. My sister-in-law was 17 when she married my 22 year old brother-in-law in 1976.

Whatever. You just don't get it. I'm done.

A 25 year old man having sex with a 16 year old isn't illegal in most places in the Western world. In some places it isn't illegal even if the girl is 15 (Sweden, Denmark for example), in some countries it is 14 (Portugal, Austria).

Age of consent is a cultural thing. Most Australians would think setting the age at 18 would be ridiculous for our country. It has never been 18 here.

 

[Amaris]

Nope. I lost my virginity to a 20 year old. At 17 I had a 26 year old boyfriend. At 18 I married a 25 year old.

I admit this was 35 years ago when it was considered quite normal for girls to get married as teenagers and often to men in the early to mid-20s. My sister-in-law was 17 when she married my 22 year old brother-in-law in 1976.

Whatever. You just don't get it. I'm done.

A 25 year old man having sex with a 16 year old isn't illegal in most places in the Western world. In some places it isn't illegal even if the girl is 15 (Sweden, Denmark for example), in some countries it is 14 (Portugal, Austria).

Age of consent is a cultural thing. Most Australians would think setting the age at 18 would be ridiculous for our country. It has never been 18 here.

It is also important to note that human biology has not caught up to human cultural lines in the sand. For a hundred thousand years, the human body has behaved a certain way toward sexually (if not mentally/socially/culturally) developed persons. As the lifespan of the average human being increases, so we (those in the First World) raise our acceptable level of maturity. Right now, it's 18. At one time it was 16, before that, 14, and before that, there was no real set age limit of adulthood.

I imagine in a hundred years, when the human lifespan has increased dramatically once more, the age may be raised to 20, or 21. It will be then that the more civilized societies will look back upon us as wrong to sexualize those so young to be 18 years of age.

 

[Brent]

Of course, its an arbitrary number, "adult hood" "maturity" all these things are individual based, there can be no general number that is true. Everyone matures and comes into adult hood at different ages. Everyone is emotionally and physically ready for sexual intercourse also at different ages.

 

[Finn]

I wish I had some popcorn here. I'm off to get some pop.

 

[Amaris]

I wish I had some popcorn here. I'm off to get some pop.

I've been partial to caramel popcorn as of late, but I have to be careful as I'm diabetic. I don't want to be a victim of "Popcorn, the Delicious Silent Killer".

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

I wish I had some popcorn here. I'm off to get some pop.

I'll butter your popcorn.

Yours too, Sarek.

 

[Miss Chicken]

It is also important to note that human biology has not caught up to human cultural lines in the sand. For a hundred thousand years, the human body has behaved a certain way toward sexually (if not mentally/socially/culturally) developed persons. As the lifespan of the average human being increases, so we (those in the First World) raise our acceptable level of maturity. Right now, it's 18. At one time it was 16, before that, 14, and before that, there was no real set age limit of adulthood.

I imagine in a hundred years, when the human lifespan has increased dramatically once more, the age may be raised to 20, or 21. It will be then that the more civilized societies will look back upon us as wrong to sexualize those so young to be 18 years of age.

In the last 100 years it hasn't been raised in Australia.

The age of consent was set at 16 in Australia in 1910 though I have to admit that in my state full age of consent is set at 17 but can be legal as early as 13 depending on the older person's age - sex is legal with a 13 or 14 year old if there is less than a 2 year age difference, it is legal with a 15 or 16 year old if there is less than a 5 year difference.

Therefore when I was 16 and had sex with a 20 year old it was legal, when I was 17 and had sex with a 26 year old it was legal.

 

[Amaris]

I wish I had some popcorn here. I'm off to get some pop.

I'll butter your popcorn.

Yours too, Sarek.

I'm wondering if buttered caramel popcorn would taste good.
Now I may have to try it.

 

[Brent]

I just don't understand why calling two 16 year old girls cute or pretty had to turn into something about sex. I never saw the words sex or sexual intercourse in the OPs post.

Age of consent has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, IMO, all this back and forth about it is irrelevant to the topic. I'm at fault for talking about it too, my apologies.

 

[ShamelessMcBundy]

It is also important to note that human biology has not caught up to human cultural lines in the sand. For a hundred thousand years, the human body has behaved a certain way toward sexually (if not mentally/socially/culturally) developed persons. As the lifespan of the average human being increases, so we (those in the First World) raise our acceptable level of maturity. Right now, it's 18. At one time it was 16, before that, 14, and before that, there was no real set age limit of adulthood.

I imagine in a hundred years, when the human lifespan has increased dramatically once more, the age may be raised to 20, or 21. It will be then that the more civilized societies will look back upon us as wrong to sexualize those so young to be 18 years of age.

In the last 100 years it hasn't been raised in Australia.

The age of consent was set at 16 in Australia in 1910 though I have to admit that in my state full age of consent is set at 17 but can be legal as early as 13 depending on the older person's age - sex is legal with a 13 or 14 year old if there is less than a 2 year age difference, it is legal with a 15 or 16 year old if there is less than a 5 year difference.

Therefore when I was 16 and had sex with a 20 year old it was legal, when I was 17 and had sex with a 26 year old it was legal.

Yes, but that was a long time ago. We're talking about now.

I wish I had some popcorn here. I'm off to get some pop.

I'll butter your popcorn.

Yours too, Sarek.

I'm wondering if buttered caramel popcorn would taste good.
Now I may have to try it.

I'll give you the number to my dad's cardiologist.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't think either of them are particularly cute.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I just don't understand why calling two 16 year old girls cute or pretty had to turn into something about sex. I never saw the words sex or sexual intercourse in the OPs post.

Which is why I voted straight away without thinking of a sexual overtone. I thought that Abby was the cutest/prettiest of the two girls.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Yes, but that was a long time ago. We're talking about now.

I think that Australians today are even more open minded about 16 year olds having sex than they were when I was 16.

 

[Jetfire]

Scientist say the brain doesn't mature till 25 or so.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/02/06.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52687-2005Jan31.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1424747.htm

I wouldn't be surprised if this gets attached to age of consent for sexual activity.