Politically motivated fans

[Sci]

But it's no longer 1964. That's the ultimate sticking point.

In 1964 there was no social media. Actors, content creators, fans, etc had no platform on which they could share their political views or social commentary.

While some may argue that, had social media existed in 1964, we would have seen the same comments or points of view that have fueled this very topic. I feel there is an additional element. People have changed. Maybe it's because of social media, or maybe it's something else, but people have become more vocal, more willing to express their opinions. Further, especially since the 2016 US presidential election, people have become more militant, more extreme in their views. Gone are the days of "live and let live." Now people feel if you are not with them, then you must be against them. Even expressing a neutral opinion is taken as opposition of whatever the cause might be.

Trek has always been political, but politics was not so much shoved in one's face as it is today, and that's including the fact the 50s and 60s saw riots, walk outs, protests, and sit ins.

This entire post is just recency bias and nostalgia. The 1950s and 1960s were no less polarized and no less political, and people were not more accepting of difference. They literally required black folk to use different fountains than whites -- that's not being more live-and-let-live!

What has changed is that individual persons have more powerful platforms for the exercise of free speech, which has allowed their voices to be heard more -- including voices that used to be ignored and shut off by the majority. That creates the illusion that there's more conflict than there used to be; in reality, it's just that that conflict isn't as easy to hide and ignore as it used to be.

Doesn't that only protect you from government censure? Not privately owned websites, like Twitter, Facebook, TrekBBS.

Exactly. But OP was explicitly arguing in favor of prior censorship by the government.

As a negative term, I think "woke" is best used as anyone who thinks past prejudice or ill treatment gives a minority group more rights than their non-minority counterparts, or that the "oppressor" group must be placed subordinate or made inferior to the "oppressed".

Examples might include:

* Excusing the BLM riots, which were insurrections as much as January 6 was, in a different location. I say that the fact that one man was murdered does not excuse violence and mayhem against the innocent (many of them minority and some even black). "Woke" disagrees.

That is a false characterization of the BLM protests. Those riots were not insurrections -- they were not attempts to replace the legitimately-elected government; they were attempts to secure their natural rights as citizens. As the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said: "But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

And they were not reactions to "one man" being murdered. They were reactions to widespread, systematic violence against black folk, including many, many murders, by police forces that are almost entirely unaccountable for their actions.

* In the original "The Little Mermaid", Eric is saved by Ariel or her minions three times before managing to save her at the end. For the "woke", a 3-1 ratio is not enough. So in the live action remake, Ariel saves him. Again. If you can't empower women in other way by emasculating men, you're not very creative.

"Emasculating?" And maybe they changed the end of TLM because having a personality-less supporting character save the day in the climax of the story instead of the main character is dramatically unsatisfying.

* When a well regarded fantasy writer long regarded for her passionate opposition to racism, sexism, and other bigotry feels the need to stand up for the rights of XX women, she gets targeted by all manner of media abuse. Some would say that these women need a voice, and that even if this writer is wrong, she's following her conscience. "Woke" people say otherwise.

This, too, is a false characterization of J.K. Rowling's behavior. She is not "standing up for the rights of XX women," she is perpetuating the oppression of transgender people.

 

[Michael]

I have said nothing that was hostile or prejudicial towards the Jewish people.

Don't play dumb, of course you did. Saying their plight is somehow comparable to a fucking actor being fired from a gig because they said something stupid is incredibly hostile and ignorant to what the Jewish people went through under Nazi rule.

 

[Sci]

I think you should look up the definition of antisemitism, since you clearly don't understand what it means. I have said nothing that was hostile or prejudicial towards the Jewish people. Also, my dad is Jewish.

It is antisemitic of you to trivialize the horrors of the Nazis' persecution of Jews by equating it to normal political disagreements, as you just did.

 

[fireproof78]

What has changed is that individual persons have more powerful platforms for the exercise of free speech, which has allowed their voices to be heard more -- including voices that used to be ignored and shut off by the majority. That creates the illusion that there's more conflict than there used to be; in reality, it's just that that conflict isn't as easy to hide and ignore as it used to be.

Exactly this. And it's damn uncomfortable for many which is why sympathy and grace are far more needed now than perhaps ever before.

 

[Extrocomp]

That is a false characterization of the BLM protests. Those riots were not insurrections -- they were not attempts to replace the legitimately-elected government; they were attempts to secure their natural rights as citizens. As the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said: "But it is not enough for me to stand before you tonight and condemn riots. It would be morally irresponsible for me to do that without, at the same time, condemning the contingent, intolerable conditions that exist in our society. These conditions are the things that cause individuals to feel that they have no other alternative than to engage in violent rebellions to get attention. And I must say tonight that a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the negro poor has worsened over the last twelve or fifteen years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice and humanity."

And they were not reactions to "one man" being murdered. They were reactions to widespread, systematic violence against black folk, including many, many murders, by police forces that are almost entirely unaccountable for their actions.

Call them whatever you want, but you have to agree that the BLM riots caused much more damage than the January 6 riot. The majority of violence against black people is caused by other black people, not the police, but for some reason BLM never talks about that.

 

[1001001]

So this thread turned into real world political fighting?

 

[1001001]

What antisemitic remarks did Gina Carano make? It was a long time ago, but the way I remember it, she compared people who persecute conservatives today to the Nazis persecuting Jews in the 30s. She was cancelled for that comment, which proved her right. Her costar Pedro Pascal compared conservatives to Nazis and received no consequences.

Unless you're talking about the actual Holocaust, people should keep the Holocaust out of their mouths. The comparison is absurd almost beyond belief.