However, Spock's life pretty much is the same up until his time at the academy in both universes. The bully scene is pretty much taken right from Yesteryear and Amanda talks about the children taunting him during Journey to Babel. The Spock we're introduced to in '09 is pretty much the same Spock as we see in TOS. By the end of the movie, howeverm he's much closer to Spock at the end of TMP. NuSPock pretty much cut 10 years off his journey in this movie and did it in less than a week.
Plot hole city: Part 3!
- Thread starter William Wallace
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It took OldSpock many years to embrace his human/emotional half. But I think this movie and the events that happened will give NuSpock the opportunity to embrace his his human/emotional half much sooner in his life.
Once you've had a green woman nothing is ever the same again!
Yeah, but I don't think following your human heart means throwing common sense out the window entirely.
The first time oldSpock meets nuKirk, nuKirk is about to be killed by the snow monster, because Kirk decided to do something stupid and dangerous. So if oldSpock hadn't been there to save Kirk's from his own recklessness, he'd be dead. And yet, one of the very next thing Spock does is insist on staying behind, not only letting Kirk fend for himself, but insisting he take control of the Enterprise and lead it into battle against a vastly superior opponent? Please.
That's not a plot hole.
They could have just beamed or shuttled down to some Federation outpost along the way, such as the one on Delta Vega, and used their communication equipment.
number6
Vice Admiral
Seriously?? What did Kirk do that was reckless and dangerous with regards to being chased by the snow monster? You completely fabricated that one to prove the second point somehow.. Since Kirk didn't do anything reckless to cause him to be chased by the snow monster, the second half of your issue makes no sense. I seriously wonder which film you watched because you are clearly not getting something.
Well, there was the part about:
Then again, he is James T. "Risk Is Our Business" Kirk, so make of that what you will.
I would classify this as a weakness, at worst a minor one.
You know what I'm going to say. Spock is not firing on all thrusters. He made his decision to rendezvous with the rest of the fleet, and is stubbornly sticking to it. He's compromised and making poor choices, which he later admits. Plausible reasons why no one in the crew takes Kirk's side, objects to what Spock does, or voices alternatives to what either Kirk or Spock proposes, are easy to imagine.
Saquist
Commodore
"He turned the power to the have-nots
And then came the shot
I think I heard a shot"-
1/10 Please Kill Me
2/10 One Word
3/10 Eat my Shorts
4/10 Getting Seasick
5/10 Average
6/10 I've Seen Better
7/10 Not Baad
8/10 Pretty Good
9/10 Tight
10/10 Rocks!
I was judging the artwork
But then If you frequented BCFILES Picture of the Day you might have caught the reference to rating the daily screenshot artwork. On the other hand you could have known from where the reference and still misunderstood.
I can live with 1/16. After all that is the usual structural tolerance I work with.
OldSpock trusting that NuKirk could live up to the potential that his counterpart had in the alternate reality is displaying common sense and logic. I don't think it is logical for OldSpock to think that just because NuKirk was attacked by a snow monster and had to be rescued he should be disqualified from future leadership.
Following your logic in the Original Series after Kirk was attacked and almost killed by the Mugato he should have been stripped of command?
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I've been saying that for years!
But he's supposed to be smart/logical, and from a culture of such types ( some intellectual creativity would be expected ). Meaning that as a character we're supposed to understand that he's really like that, not just posing. And by "posing" I mean people who are sold as "smart" when not being tested in any way, right up until the point when they're stressed, tired, disappointed, frustrated, or otherwise emotional, at which point logic goes out the window and they do something completely stupid. The proverbial "moment of truth".
number6
Vice Admiral
That's a flimsy argument to hang a run-in with a snow monster, don't you agree??
Considering that the computer just told.him the exact direction and distance of an outpost, what he chose to do was reasonable based on his own human judgment.
I don't know about y'all, but I encounter a number of automated voices every day, from supermarket check-outs to telephone trees to ATMs. And I routinely ignore parts or all of those instructions where the limited assumptions of the programmers or the algorithms don't correspond to my actual situation or intentions.
I don't know about y'all, but I encounter a number of automated voices every day, from supermarket check-outs to telephone trees to ATMs. And I routinely ignore parts or all of those instructions where the limited assumptions of the programmers or the algorithms don't correspond to my actual situation or intentions.
Saquist
Commodore
Mistake 1#
You thinking I care who thinks I'm clever.
I happen to like obscure references. It's telling (or revealing) to see who knows what. I wasn't insulting you nor was I trying to nor do I think like you so that you can make your remarks with any sort of accuracy to what I'm thinking. (although I think I'm fairly predictable).
I thought your comment was spot on though. Because by challenge is how I work sometimes. By the artwork was just awful. I though r/10 was generous.
But even if it was a rating on your comment. Do you really care that much? I know I wouldn't
Well lets think about that. If they had contacted Starfleet and received orders the decision would have been taken out of their hands and it would have no longer been "the Enterprise against the universe". Worse, whatever Starfleet's decision, Kirk wouldn't have met Spock Prime and wouldn't have taken command of the Enterprise.
In other words it would have derailed the plot the writers went with so it seems to be a decent sized plot hole.
Plausible reasons not to do the obvious (warn Earth by any means possible)?
To be fair to Kirk, "Unsafe" and "Remain in your pod (until Hell freezes over, given the way Scotty fair charged to the rescue!)" was rather understating the danger and he probably thought the risk was justified under the circumstances. Especially since at the time it was obvious Kirk was at least as emotionally comprised as Spock.
But it was also pretty obvious a pod was the wrong choice and beaming Kirk to the outpost (as I think has been suggested) would have been much safer. The wildlife on DV (not to mention the general environment) had to have been in the data base and combined with Kirk's known propensity for recklessness, should have made it the only option. Spock's not that "compromised" and certainly other crewmembers weren't. In fact it didn't even look like Spocks choice, he just ordered Kirk off his ship. Also, the time lost would not have been significant. Thus the only major reason was to meet Spock Prime and get his beaming info etc. So that's a plot hole too.
Heck, in order for the escape pod not to be a certain death sentence, they must have known about the outpost and yet no one thought to "borrow their phone"?
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