piracy discussion - new series

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by jefferiestubes8, Dec 29, 2015.

  1. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Commodore

    Mar 8, 2009
    New York City
    After reviewing TrekBBS FAQ
    I wanted to start a formal discussion of how piracy will affect the TV series before it even is released. This is a thread about the implications and not advocating any illegal activity.
    Piracy is a real thing and will continue. Look at HBO and Game of Thrones especially before HBO Go.

    Recently I saw an article4K content ripped by pirates from Netflix and Amazon is flooding torrent sites and thought of the implications for CBSAA in USA as well as the International release of the new Trek series.
    First CBS network in USA will preview the premiere. This means it will most likely be before the rest of International markets.
    How many subscriptions will be lost due to piracy?
    If Netflix' files have been pirated will CBSAA's files of the show also fall to this since both services are streaming-only not downloaded files with DRM (digital rights management)?
    Will a website like TorrentFreak
    cover the next Trek series in January 2017?
    TF posted this week
    Will Trek be in the top 3 in 2017?
    CBS is well aware of the piracy and CBSAA hasn't had an exclusive show yet nor the subscriber base and The Big Bang Theory is not available anywhere but CBS Network and CBSAA.
    If Trek is one of the top pirated show how will CBS distribute it for season 2 to try to reduce this?
    Will CBS release subscriber numbers in Q1 and Q2 of 2017 to show growth and also some granular figures for the Trek series watchings on CBSAA?

    Mods if this thread is not allowed please write the specific reason and lock the thread rather than delete it.
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jul 2, 2009
    Any time someone posts a Youtube video of a scene of a film or TV show from a Youtube channel other than the official distributor's, that someone is posting illegal content on the BBS.

    Fan fiction, drawings, renderings are also illegal. A grey zone. But the site gains money from advertising, so ANY content that people view on this site is linked to generating money from it. So in turn, the BBS makes money from fan fiction.
    Overgeeked likes this.
  3. Paul Weaver

    Paul Weaver Rear Admiral Premium Member

    Apr 12, 1999
    Cheshire, UK
    "Piracy" (ooh-arr, fetch me cutlass Jim-Lad) is inevitable. Certainly the only way for the majority of people to contribute to trekbbs when Enterprise and Voyager were on was to download the episodes (via IRC for example). Being subscription-only won't change that.

    The question is, will enough people subscribe to CBS to earn a profit. If they do, then it will continue, regardless of how many people download it. If they don't, it won't continue, even if nobody downloads it.

    Of course with Game of Thrones, or things on Amazon and Netflix, there's no benefits to piracy. With CBS's 1950s view of the world, putting ADVERTS in a TV program (!!), they are going to drive people to superior copies -- just like with those DVDs that don't allow you to skip various adverts (especially the "don't pirate this dvd" adverts, which mean the first thing you do is rip the DVD).

    If Trek17 isn't a success, it will be because of CBS attempting to use it to prop up their ancient, failing, business model in the face of a new world. Release it as a pay-per-view, or on Netflix or Amazon, and it would get more viewers.
  4. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 31, 2006
    Look at that list again, it's highly correlated with the largest most popular shows. Where does House of Cards or Man in the High Castle show up on the list? Those are better comparisons for Star Trek. I'm sure CBS has modeled the expected impact of piracy and what it thinks the subscriber totals will be even with piracy.

    Also, I'd question your comment that the US will get the show first. The initial press release talked about international distribution. So CBS is considering international viewers. If it knows piracy is a concern and international distributors will pay more for earlier access, why wouldn't it allow for same day distribution? I can't find the dates, but the question again is, when does House of Cards and Man in the High Castle debut in international markets?
  5. Shalashaska

    Shalashaska Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 6, 2015
    Don't know about MitHC, but House of Cards debuts here in Ireland on Netflix at the same as the US.
  6. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Commodore

    Mar 8, 2009
    New York City
    A "pay-per-view" model ? On CBS website/CBS App/or rental-only on iTunes?
    Even with CBSAA in America I will guess CBS will also be selling each episode on iTunes for $4.99/episode premium price (HD) instead of $2.99 which all shows are including the CBS show "The Good Wife"
    during the season 1 run until season 2 starts and then probably the price will become $2.99.
    This is essentially pay-per-view. Possibly CBS would not release it on iTunes/Vudu/Microsoft store for purchase until then end of the season run which would be say Summer 2017.
    This is the only way they can force people to subscribe to CBSAA. The only other way would be illegal piracy if CBS price gouges people for a first-run of the series streaming/digital download.
    Otherwise if each episode of Trek'17 TV series is $2.99 people will just download and own it on iTunes to watch forever since it would be in your iTunes library. Or would CBS make it a rental-only like a movie instead of like TV series where you own the episodes in your iTunes or Microsoft store or Vudu library?
    No one is going to goto CBS website or Vimeo and watch pay-per-view streaming for an episode.
    CBS app on Apple TV/Roku/Amazon or each episode on iTunes purchased is much easier if they want people to buy episodes instead of CBSAA subscription. CBS really want the subscribers for a number of reasons. One is so they are 12-month subscribers. A perpetual license if you will like software subscriptions.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2015
  7. raffie

    raffie Commander Red Shirt

    Aug 25, 2003
    Well if it is a good show and/or it is popular, it's piracy will thrive, if not, it will be pirated only moderately.
    ADz83 likes this.
  8. tharpdevenport

    tharpdevenport Admiral Admiral

    Piracy will be handled just as it is now, constantly trying to take it down and keep up with new ways around it.

    New shows and old, are constantly pirated, yet that never killed the market. A new Trek series isn't special in such regards. What is special here, is having people pay to use the one service that will air it.

    Besides, it will also depend on the show. If it's crap, people won't watch it even if it's free on youtube. Obscure and unsold pilots get pirated up on youtube more than bad TV shows.
    T'Arwen likes this.
  9. Barracuda

    Barracuda Cadet Newbie

    Dec 14, 2015
    As stated here, House of Cards debuts here in Ireland at the same time as in all other regions, however, quite laughably, Amazon Prime Video is not available in Ireland, and so Man In The High Castle is not legally available here yet at all. That said, Prime Video is available in the UK, and it received Man In The High Castle at the same time as the US.

    In general, streaming services that are available internationally debut original content simultaneously planet-wide, but from my understanding, All Access is US-only, and so the debut of the series here depends on who purchases the distribution rights.
    My guess is that if it is purchased by an online streaming outlet such as Netflix or Prime, it will release here pretty soon after its original US release, as in just a few days difference maximum. For example, Better Call Saul was released as a Netflix Original Series here and episodes appeared on Netflix the day after they were first broadcast in the US. However, if it is purchased by a particular television station, it would likely follow the pattern of several other imported shows here such as The Flash or Agents of SHIELD, and be shown about a week after it releases in the US.
  10. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Sep 24, 2009
    I'd be surprised if Netflix gets this series at all. Programs from services that exist primarily as Netflix's competitors in the US rarely if ever wind up on Netflix in Ireland - I think Hotwives of Orlando is the only Hulu original our Netflix has, and that's a something like a year after the American release. CBS All Access is clearly made as competition for Netflix (and almost immediately after Netflix announced their own space opera revival, Lost In Space) so a deal where Netflix gets the series for all non-US markets and the episodes the day after American broadcast - which is their Better Call Saul deal - seems phenomenally unlikely.

    My money is on BSkyB, as they have had every Star Trek series since the time they poached Next Generation from the BBC. They could either put the new Star Trek back on Sky One, or - if they wanted to keep it digital - make it exclusive to the SkyOnDemand service, as they have done for shows in the part (like Justified.)

    Of course the possibility of the show going up on Prime and thus not legally available in Ireland is always a thing, I guess (although Prime shows that aren't Amazon originals have been getting second-run shots on TV like Extant's second season this month on Syfy; so it may eventually show up on Irish TV; but buying the DVDs when they come out - which hasn't happened for High Castle yet - is the only legal recourse for that show and Amazon's other shows.)

    Regardless, piracy continues to be as big as it is in a large part due to delayed - or non-existent - schedules of titles in countries outside of the US (Sense8 was huge in piracy but if your country didn't have Netflix - like, say, Russia - that was your only choice for watching that program in 2015); one reason Game of Thrones aimed to be simulcast last year in almost every country that broadcasts Game of Thrones.

    As for Star Trek's popularity in piracy: We're in the age of what some people call Peak TV. There's a very large number of very popular shows. I would suspect somewhere behind or around Doctor Who's numbers; unless the show becomes popular in its own right.
    Sector 7 likes this.
  11. ADz83

    ADz83 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jan 29, 2016
    Well since the new series will be a "US Exclusive" I will have no choice but to "pirate" it. There is no way I am waiting a year or more after it airs to actually watch. My guess since they're also making it a CBS all access exclusive you will get many US fans "pirating" it as well.

    I'll also be watching via a UK based subscription/tv station etc and also buying when out on optical media so do not feel guilty in any way shape or form.

    Saying that if the new series is set in JJVerse or some shitty reboot you can forget all of the above as I will most likely not bother with it. Continuation of DS9/VOY and in prime universe of GTFO imo.
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 11, 2014
    Annoyed by inappropriate use of the word "Need"
    Not quite accurate, as CBS has reported it will be working with International affiliates to broadcast it outside the US.

    As for piracy, hopefully they will find some way to curtail it, but I doubt it. Since media is regarded as should be free then hacking and pirating will continue, since the pirates seem to be better able to stay ahead of the technology curve than the companies producing content.
  13. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas DISCO QUEEEEEEN Premium Member

    Oct 1, 2006
    Intergalactic Planetary Planetary Intergalactic
    Thanks. I was just about to go all "wait what" on the "US exclusive" bit.

    That would be a stupid policy...

    ...like GoT airing in certain European countries almost a year after the American release date during the internet age and people being baffled that the show's the most pirated thing in the history of forever.

    Oh wait.
    daedalus5 likes this.
  14. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jan 31, 2006
    Yep. It amazes me how many people can't seem to read the initial press release that explicitly talks about international distribution.
  15. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 14, 2003
    It won't be a "US Exclusive". These days a bunch of shows air worldwide within a day or two, I see no reason for ST not to be one of them. We'll have to wait closer to the actual release of the series for details on how it will air and where.
  16. ADz83

    ADz83 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jan 29, 2016
    I was specifically quoting CBS, not giving an opinion. They themselves said it would "US Exclusive". To me that sounds at least like they will be only showing it initially in US. Maybe after season one they will show via other streaming services but initially it will be exclusive to US.
  17. ADz83

    ADz83 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jan 29, 2016
    A totally new Star Trek television series is coming in January 2017! The new series will blast off with a special preview broadcast of the premiere episode on the CBS Television Network, and the premiere episode and all subsequent first-run episodes will then be available exclusively in the United States on CBS All Access.
  18. dahj

    dahj Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 14, 2003
    The wording is a bit unclear, but that bit actually means that in the US it will be exclusively shown on CBS All Access.

    The very next paragraph of that same press release says:
    "The next chapter of the Star Trek franchise will also be distributed concurrently for television and multiple platforms around the world by CBS Studios International."

    So CBS International will make deals to air the show at the same time elsewhere round the world.
    ADz83 and urbandefault like this.
  19. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 3, 2013
    Sickbay, dammit.
    I had no trouble understanding the press release, but I do have a little trouble believing that others can't do the same. It's all there in black and white. Are people not reading all the way though and jumping to conclusions, or just being intentionally obtuse?
    fireproof78 likes this.
  20. ADz83

    ADz83 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Jan 29, 2016
    It says the first run will be CBS/US exclusive. It sounds like after first season has shown in US on CBS All access it will then be distributed worldwide.