Pike is [Spoiler]ed?

[M'Sharak]

According to Wikipedia, "With the release of the Animated Series DVD release, Paramount Studio appears to have changed its stance on the series, and is now calling the animated series part of established canon, including within the pack-in booklet, and DVD extras, and Startrek.com."

Ah, yes. Wikipedia. The never-ending source of all accuracy.

I always find this comment funny. I rarely find anything on Wikipedia that I don't find to be almost 100% correct. The beauty of Wikipedia is the checks and balances. Someone posts something incorrect, some fanatic makes sure it's set straight again. Someone else corrects his fanatic-ness with over the top research.

Sorry, off topic.

I find errors all the time in newspapers, news magazines, websites of all kinds, etc. But I've only ever caught Wikipedia in one or two errors. Methinks waaaay too much is made of its supposed "unreliability".

However, it remains to be true what Gep implied: Wikipedia is hardly a scientific source and it should not be treated as such.

As the comment to which Gep was responding had to do with the status of TAS in the Trek canon, he's probably right in considering it suspect as a source, as there still tend to be lots of inaccuracies and bias in entries on entertainment- and fandom-related topics. On more serious scientific subjects, however, it's been my experience that the information found at Wikipedia is generally as accurate as any source available to the general public outside of heavyweight texts and professional journals, and usually much more current. As with any encyclopedia, it's merely a starting point and not the final authority on anything, but I find it quite handy and use it lots.

Digression over. You are now returned to your regularly-scheduled topic.

 

[cooleddie74]

I always find this comment funny. I rarely find anything on Wikipedia that I don't find to be almost 100% correct. The beauty of Wikipedia is the checks and balances. Someone posts something incorrect, some fanatic makes sure it's set straight again. Someone else corrects his fanatic-ness with over the top research.

Sorry, off topic.

I find errors all the time in newspapers, news magazines, websites of all kinds, etc. But I've only ever caught Wikipedia in one or two errors. Methinks waaaay too much is made of its supposed "unreliability".

However, it remains to be true what Gep implied: Wikipedia is hardly a scientific source and it should not be treated as such.

I wouldn't even trust Wikipedia to tell me anything bulletproof about Wikipedia.

 

[Neopeius]

I don't think the new movie will be canon until Gene Roddeberry declares it so.


Re: Pike questions,

1) Yes, the mind meld was established by Menagerie

2) There's nothing that says Spock didn't mind meld Pike off-screen.

 

[cooleddie74]

I don't think the new movie will be canon until Gene Roddeberry declares it so.


Re: Pike questions,

1) Yes, the mind meld was established by Menagerie

2) There's nothing that says Spock didn't mind meld Pike off-screen.

Actually the mind meld was seen for the first time and established in Dagger of the Mind, when Spock has to meld with Dr. Van Gelder to learn the truth of the Tantalus V penal colony.

 

[Neopeius]

I don't think the new movie will be canon until Gene Roddeberry declares it so.


Re: Pike questions,

1) Yes, the mind meld was established by Menagerie

2) There's nothing that says Spock didn't mind meld Pike off-screen.

Actually the mind meld was seen for the first time and established in Dagger of the Mind, when Spock has to meld with Dr. Van Gelder to learn the truth of the Tantalus V penal colony.

Right. I typed with a lack of clarity. When I said "by", I meant "in time for" or "before".

When I tried to use that phrasing before, I was inexplicably wracked with pain, I couldn't remember who I was, and I became a raving renegade starship Captain with no regard for the U.S. Constitution.

 

[Cary L. Brown]

Re: Pike is Crippled?

Zoot zoot.

Timo Saloniemi

Isn't that "Zootie zoot-zoot?"

 

[EJA]

As long as the new movie doesn't totally prevent the events of The Cage from happening more-or-less as they did. And maybe Pike isn't killed so much as incapacitated, leading to Spock initially taking command, and then Kirk? At least I hope that's how it is.

 

[cooleddie74]

As long as Pike says or shows he's from Mojave in the SW United States I can tolerate a few minor tweaks in continuity.

 

[EJA]

Alternate timeline or not, there's just no way they can erase The Cage; it's where Trek started, for God's sake!!

 

[M'Sharak]

Alternate timeline or not, there's just no way they can erase The Cage; it's where Trek started, for God's sake!!

I don't really see anything yet which says that it will. Writing Pike as a significant character in this movie doesn't make a whole lot of sense if they intend all along to throw "The Cage" out the window, does it? Some minor things may get a little bit bent, but that's really nothing new in Star Trek or even in TOS.

 

[Timo]

Hmm... Do we really know which years this new movie will touch?

If Nero's first time-travel assault happens when Kirk is born, it should be around 2233ish. Kirk as a 10-12-year-old car-wrecking brat should be in the mid-2240s (or the time we thought the Enterprise originally was built), but that's something that Nero will already have affected. Kirk as a 20-something barfly would then be mid-2250s, which should be after the events of "The Cage". But if the Enterprise in the new reality hasn't been built by the time Kirk gropes Uhura at the bar, then "The Cage" cannot have happened, because Pike wouldn't have had a ship to take to Talos IV...

Unless things happened only slightly differently, and Pike sailed to that planet aboard the Mayflower instead. Or perhaps he had an earlier Enterprise? And there's always also the possibility that the birthdates and ages of the characters are the bits that get moved around, while the events stay.

Agreed in any case that it just doesn't work very well to have both Captain Pike and this Nero temporal interference in the same plot; any random skipper could have served the role of Pike here. Although it would be fine irony (read: a groan-inducing in-joke) if Pike avoided the fate of "The Cage"/"The Menagerie", only to get wheelchair-bound anyway.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[therritn]

I'd say no. I don't know what rank Kirk is in the movie, but I don't think he will take command in this movie. He could get promoted, but not to take command.

 

[cooleddie74]

For all we know, Kirk was a lt. commander or full commander and wasn't aboard the Enterprise until just before Pike retired from field duty.