Picard's atheism?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by killax, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. stoneagepunk

    stoneagepunk Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I dunno about Picard, but Kirk implies in that ep with this greek-god-bloke that there is just one god, or something like that.

    So Kirk is religious. I can't understand why, tho.

    I think even Spock is religious in some way.
     
  2. HRHTheKING

    HRHTheKING Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Personally I think Picard's objection was based on not wanting to allow the Mintakans to worship HIM as a god, not gods in general.
     
  3. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If so, he sure could've chosen his words better, rather than being so broad with them.
     
  4. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Picard believed in whatever vague new-age words the writer of the week wanted to come out of his mouth. So he'd poo poo religion and then make noises about "something greater after death" (or whatever he says in some conversation with Data).
     
  5. HRHTheKING

    HRHTheKING Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That tends to happen in TNG when Picard delivers his tiresome moral speeches, that Nick Locarno mentioned.
     
  6. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or contradicted by people like the Bajorans.
    Plus its a bit of a sweeping statement/generalization.
     
  7. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's from Tapestry.
     
  8. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That doesn't mean that he is religious anymore than Uhura's comment about people worshipping the son of God does. In neither case do they come out and say that they worship a God or who that God might be.
     
  9. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Gene was referring to 24th century humans (although I cannot be certain of that). He seemed to be okay with aliens being "imperfect", but humans had to be perfect with little or no flaws.

    As an atheist I find the whole notion that religion will be dead in three hundred years to be paradise ;), but entirely unbelievable.
     
  10. Geoff

    Geoff Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    An atheist believes, without question, that there is no god. An agnostic claims not to know one way or the other. The two philosophies are mutually exclusive.

    But I also agree that it doesn't matter one wet load of sehlat kidneys.
     
  11. mythme

    mythme Commodore Commodore

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    The above is called diesm. That is what I consider myself - a diest.
     
  12. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That is what I used to think too, but it isn't so. A gnostic is a person who absolutely knows that what they believe is true, and an agnostic is a person who only believes a thing and doesn't claim to have knowledge that it is true. Thus you can be a gnostic theist, an agnostic theist, a gnostic atheist and an agnostic atheist, such as myself.

    An atheist is a person who does not believe in a god. They are not somebody who completely rejects the possibility of a god, they merely do not believe in one themselves.

    The confusion about this stems from the fact that atheists are seen as being a bad thing by many theists as they really don't understand what atheism is, so instead some people claim to be an agnostic as that is seen as being an inoffensive middle ground. In reality, all agnostics are agnostic atheists unless they believe in a god of some form, in which case the are agnostic theists.

    I am an atheist, I am 99.999% certain that there is no god. I also know that I can never entirely disprove the existence of a god, therefore I am a agnostic atheist.
     
  13. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I thought that was more Southern than Christian.
     
  14. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm an atheist and I use those expressions and similar all the time , because I just happen to speak idiomatic English. ;)

    I'm an atheist because I've encountered no persuasive evidence that something like "god" exists, and I don't default to belief for no reason - you know, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." There's no knowing for certain about it, but that doesn't make me "agnostic."
     
  15. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And yet... we had all those annoying humans!! lol

    Historically, from what I remember of my history, the atheistic periods of history have been some of the worse, at one point the life expectancy in one area was 14... but I didn't study very modern history.

    But I can't imagine we'll see a time when there won't be an religion. TBH, I wouldn't want it... its individuals that are the problem- the violent, the greedy etc.
     
  16. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    It's also worth noting that "Sweet Jesus!" was a Meyerism, the same Meyer who had Bones say "According to myth, the earth was created in six days." As a twelve year old Christian (a thirty-eight year old atheist now, thanks), that line shook me: my one (chosen) religion was calling my other (imposed) religion a myth and I had no Norman to co-ordinate. Oy! Sweet Gene, but that was rough!
     
  17. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You've either accepted or are drawing some really unjustified conclusions there. As long as you're going to oversimplify, have you considered that causation might run in the opposite direction? If my life expectancy was fourteen I might decide there was no reason to believe in God. :lol:
     
  18. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The period I studied in England a few hundred years ago was a time when people in general had decided there was no god, and therefore were doing whatever they wanted hang the consequences to others. It was a kind of rebellion I think against the very rigid religious beliefs of the time. Apparently there was a great deal of child-abandonment, which I believe accounts for the mortality rate- if most of the kids die by the time they're toddlers... and if very promiscuous sex is rampant- you'll have a lot of people dying from childbirth, archaic abortions and pregnancies too. I don't think mortality rates affect people's belief in supreme entities... at least not that I've seen, usually, historically. Today its probably somewhat different. *shrug*
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Admiral Admiral

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    Huh, I always thought being Agnostic meant that you did believe in God but you didn't believe or practice any existing faith.
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You'd have to be a lot more specific than that to be at all persuasive - "historically," that is. :cool: