Picard's a father
- Thread starter garoo1980
- Start date
A spurious analogy. It was clearly the same Earth because it had the same land masses, the same climate, the Golden Gate Bridge, etc. It was clearly the same Vulcan because it had the same desert environment and it was the home of Spock, Sarek, Amanda, and the Vulcan Science Academy. It would be completely irrational to think that they weren't the same worlds. On the other hand, the film's Delta Vega is obviously not the same planet, since its location and environment are completely different. The only thing they have in common is the name. So it would be completely irrational to think that they were the same world.
It's quite a simple rationalization for this minor oddity in the film, the incongruous reuse of a name. So I don't see any reason to argue against its viability.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
Who's to say it wasn't Miri's Planet? Same land masses, same climate. The buildings were of Earth design. There was probably another Golden Gate Bridge as well.
It was the writers intention that it was the same Delta Vega just like it was their intention that it was the same Earth. (Although, San Francisco looks totally different. Who's to say it is the same?)
The movie was written by people who apparently had a more than passing familiarity with Star Trek although they were not well versed in how it all fit together. They tossed in references just to have the reference made, not because it made any sort of sense.
^You're making this far more complicated than it has to be, apparently just for the sake of picking a pointless argument. I'm not going to play that game.
A couple of points already mentioned in other threads...
Delta Vega in systematic Star Trek parlance ought to be the name of a star in a constellation (Delta = fourth brightest, Vega=the constellation in question). But there's no constellation Vega in existence, and Delta Vega isn't a star in this movie. So it sounds reasonable to think that Delta Vega might follow another Trek system for planets - it might be the fourth planet in the Vega series, much like the Dytallix Corporation owns the planet Dytallix B, also known as Omicron Ceti Somethingorother.
In different universes, then, the code name would be allocated to different outposts. Perhaps Delta Vega and Beta Vega swapped places (that is, code names) in this universe?
As for Vulcan being visible from Delta Vega, well, it wasn't, quite regardless of the relative locations of the two worlds. Delta Vega was clouded all over!
Doesn't make any sense for Nero to place Spock there to watch with his own eyes, then - odds of him missing the show would be around 95%. Which makes it much more likely that Spock was supposed to watch with his own telepathic thingamabobs instead. Which in turn allows Delta Vega to be located in some position that makes sense in the internal logic of the movie: that is, away from the Vulcan system where exciting things were happening, and in some boring old corner of the universe where absolutely nothing was going on.
Timo Saloniemi
Delta Vega in systematic Star Trek parlance ought to be the name of a star in a constellation (Delta = fourth brightest, Vega=the constellation in question). But there's no constellation Vega in existence, and Delta Vega isn't a star in this movie. So it sounds reasonable to think that Delta Vega might follow another Trek system for planets - it might be the fourth planet in the Vega series, much like the Dytallix Corporation owns the planet Dytallix B, also known as Omicron Ceti Somethingorother.
In different universes, then, the code name would be allocated to different outposts. Perhaps Delta Vega and Beta Vega swapped places (that is, code names) in this universe?
As for Vulcan being visible from Delta Vega, well, it wasn't, quite regardless of the relative locations of the two worlds. Delta Vega was clouded all over!
Doesn't make any sense for Nero to place Spock there to watch with his own eyes, then - odds of him missing the show would be around 95%. Which makes it much more likely that Spock was supposed to watch with his own telepathic thingamabobs instead. Which in turn allows Delta Vega to be located in some position that makes sense in the internal logic of the movie: that is, away from the Vulcan system where exciting things were happening, and in some boring old corner of the universe where absolutely nothing was going on.
Timo Saloniemi
And Spock decided to turn the ship around to fly to some boring old corner of the universe to drop Kirk off?
Spock Jr. was heading for Laurentius, that was pretty unambiguous. Laurentius was far away from Vulcan, farther than Earth, that much was made clear as well. So why would the ship not go through some boring system on its way to Laurentius? Odds are that there wouldn't be any exciting ones on the route...
The only ambiguity there is whether the Enterprise gained warp drive between escaping Vulcan and passing by Delta Vega. There's no explicit dialogue to say that she didn't. The dialogue suggests the drive wasn't working yet when Spock and Kirk had their argument, but it could have been repaired (up to warp 4 capacity, that is) between Spock arresting Kirk and Spock launching Kirk down to Delta Vega.
Timo Saloniemi
The only ambiguity there is whether the Enterprise gained warp drive between escaping Vulcan and passing by Delta Vega. There's no explicit dialogue to say that she didn't. The dialogue suggests the drive wasn't working yet when Spock and Kirk had their argument, but it could have been repaired (up to warp 4 capacity, that is) between Spock arresting Kirk and Spock launching Kirk down to Delta Vega.
Timo Saloniemi
I still prefer the idea that Delta Vega is a world in the Vulcan system with an eccentric orbit, and that it was just coincidently (in a film packed with coincidences) in the perfect place for an eyeful of Vulcan at the time of STXI, wheras it spends most of the year much further out.
Of course we just have to pretend the camera picked angles of Vulcan that hid DV for the majority of the film. And I'm sure there's more still "wrong" with STXI DV if you look too closely (something this film clearly wasn't designed for) but it's not like those big planetoids in TMP were physically possible either.
Of course we just have to pretend the camera picked angles of Vulcan that hid DV for the majority of the film. And I'm sure there's more still "wrong" with STXI DV if you look too closely (something this film clearly wasn't designed for) but it's not like those big planetoids in TMP were physically possible either.
Can there even be an ice moon orbiting a hot desert planet?
Same question goes for a planet with an eccentric orbit that gets at some point very close to Vulcan. Wouldn't it also be in the hot zone for a couple of weeks or months even?
the whole film's a fucking joke!
Re: QUINTO'S SPOCK SHOULD BE CONSTANTLY SHOUTING!!!
The distance between Vulcan and Delta Vega at their closest would be much, much further than the distance between the deserts and ice caps of the Earth. Plus we know nothing of the atmospheres of the two worlds. Vulcan, after nuclear wars in Surak's time, may be suffering a severe greenhouse effects.
Or you could just say the alien planets have atmospheric phenomena that we in the 2010's have never concieved of
The distance between Vulcan and Delta Vega at their closest would be much, much further than the distance between the deserts and ice caps of the Earth. Plus we know nothing of the atmospheres of the two worlds. Vulcan, after nuclear wars in Surak's time, may be suffering a severe greenhouse effects.
Or you could just say the alien planets have atmospheric phenomena that we in the 2010's have never concieved of
Re: QUINTO'S SPOCK SHOULD BE CONSTANTLY SHOUTING!!!
We covered this back in February in the "XI's influence on the literature" thread. Quoting my own analysis:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3870939&highlight=delta+vega#post3870939
As for the thermodynamic questions, if this were a glaciated world that only spent a few months close to 40 Eri out of an orbital period of years, that certainly wouldn't be enough to melt all the ice away. In fact, perhaps the life forms on it are dormant most of the time and only come out when the planet gets warm enough for that brief period.
We covered this back in February in the "XI's influence on the literature" thread. Quoting my own analysis:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3870939&highlight=delta+vega#post3870939
As for the thermodynamic questions, if this were a glaciated world that only spent a few months close to 40 Eri out of an orbital period of years, that certainly wouldn't be enough to melt all the ice away. In fact, perhaps the life forms on it are dormant most of the time and only come out when the planet gets warm enough for that brief period.
Re: QUINTO'S SPOCK SHOULD BE CONSTANTLY SHOUTING!!!
100% different Delta Vega. One's at the rim of the galaxy and is uninhabited, the other's an ice world full of monsters in the Vulcan system.
100% different Delta Vega. One's at the rim of the galaxy and is uninhabited, the other's an ice world full of monsters in the Vulcan system.
Of course. We know canonically (from ENT: "Home") that Vulcan is 16 light-years from Earth (all but confirming that it is 40 Eridani), and the film's Delta Vega can't be too far from that even if it isn't actually in the Vulcan system. The nearest edge of the galactic disk is at least 400 light-years from Earth (going perpendicular to the galactic plane, of course). Assuming they're the same because they have the same name is just plain bizarre, like assuming that Mars, Pennsylvania is actually the planet Mars.
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
There's any number of planets they could have used. Why not the Vulcanis Lunar Colony where Tuvok was born? Or Vulcanis itself, if it is indeed another planet? There's enough room there to use either one. The writers specifically used Delta Vega. It's not like they pulled the name out of thin air.
