Picard series confirmed post-Romulus

[mdtauk]

The Romulans may be who we are supposed to empathise with in this series, whereas other Federation member species may see this as an opportunity to take revenge, or manipulate events to their advantage.

And rather than all the Romulans be on the same page regarding what happens next for themselves. We could explore other factions, and deep dive into the cultural diversity of the Romulan (and Reman) diaspora.

Give to the Romulans, what TNG era gave to the Klingons - more depth.

The Tal Shiar would be full of suspicion at the Federation's willingness to help, and so would be infiltrating Federation Council discussions. Other members of the Federation may seek to leave or protest over help being offered. Romulan colonies may provide an allegory to Migration fears and "problems" we are seeing across the world today.

Maybe even add in a Brexit like story with a planet choosing to leave the Federation because of a distrust of the Romulans.

There is a lot that could be done, if they went in a political storytelling direction (plenty of public speeches from Picard) and avoid flashy action scenes and effects shots, and focusing on characters over events.

 

[Captain Moe]

Maybe I missed this in the last six pages, I did honestly look, but if Romulus being destroyed is cannon does that mean the events of Star Trek 2009 happened? Nero went back in time and caused the destruction of Vulcan which should have caused ripples in the time line that could "potentially" alter the events of TNG, DS9 and VOY?

 

[Rahul]

Maybe I missed this in the last six pages, I did honestly look, but if Romulus being destroyed is cannon does that mean the events of Star Trek 2009 happened? Nero went back in time and caused the destruction of Vulcan which should have caused ripples in the time line that could "potentially" alter the events of TNG, DS9 and VOY?

Yes and no.
Sadly, it only makes it clear how much the backstory of ST09 wasn't thought out. This was well and good for ST09, because it was only backstory - and an alternate future one that never appened at that - but it kinda' left the prime universe in shambles. Having such a mega-event happening, with all the consequences off-screen, and baaaadly explained ("A supernova threatening to estroy the galaxy!)

Really, any prime-universe Trek show would be better off to either
1) Ignore the event, or
2) Completely retell it as it's own.

Having THIS event half-arsed in the background is a massive miscalculation, and comes only from Kurtzman apparently not wanting to negate his own creation in ST09.

Even though it would be benefitial for the story, and has absolutely nothing to do with the character of Picard at all.

 

[Rahul]

I think Kurtzman including the events of the Kelvin Trek film in this show and making them a focal point is less about canon, and more about his ego.

Given how poorly the Kelvin franchise turned out (it's dead now), is it really worth revisiting and focusing upon? I think he is placing more value on his 'mark' than it actually deserves.

This is gonna be another divisive Trek show, especially with a beloved character like Picard in play, brace yourselves.

I think you hit the nail on the head here: This event (destruction of Romulus) was a miniscule detail in the Kelvin-series - to give Nero a "revenge"-story, without actually happening something in the present of the movie that would actually justify revenge.

And yea, the "Countdown"-comic really was NOT good. If that's what this new series is going to build upon - we're in a bad place. Essentially a revival of Kelvin-Trek, without all the things that made Kelvin-Trek actually good - without the scale, the characters, the pace of Kelvin Trek, but with the same problems that killed Kelvin Trek - the same logic- and plotholes and disregard for basic science, characters & backstory...

I'll wait for what actually will happen - Michael Chabon proved himself with "Calypso" greatly - but too much of Kurtzman's ego will kill this show. At least quality-wise.

 

[Kirk Prime]

This is an interesting opportunity. For me, mentioning the Kelvin Universe is a chance to canonize something that no matter how many off camera interviews Abrams gave, is not, in my definition, canon--and that is that the prime universe still exists.

They copped out because I think Abrams tried to have his cake and eat it too. But based on Star Trek's rules of time travel, the prime universe CAN'T exist because it was altered.

Anything we see on this show would merely be history as it played out before Nero.

Spock Prime would have been unaltered because he is the time traveler.

That's how it is, as I see it, on screen, right now.

That said, the only way the prime universe can actually exist unaltered, based on Star Trek rules of time travel, is if Spock and Nero didn't just travel through time, but into another universe too, like Mirror Mirror.

Or Worf in Parallels.

Very possible, but never acknowledged on screen. The Picard show can change that with ONE LINE.

Mention that Spock managed to send a message that he followed Nero to another universe, where Nero destroyed that universe's Vulcan, and that Spock chose to stay behind to help them rebuild.

That way, the Prime Universe knows what happened to Spock, we the audience, knows what happened next, and all is well.

 

[Tuskin38]

Maybe I missed this in the last six pages, I did honestly look, but if Romulus being destroyed is cannon does that mean the events of Star Trek 2009 happened? Nero went back in time and caused the destruction of Vulcan which should have caused ripples in the time line that could "potentially" alter the events of TNG, DS9 and VOY?

No, because the Kelvin movies are in an alternate universe.
Spock even says that in the movie.

 

[ITDUDE]

Maybe I missed this in the last six pages, I did honestly look, but if Romulus being destroyed is cannon does that mean the events of Star Trek 2009 happened? Nero went back in time and caused the destruction of Vulcan which should have caused ripples in the time line that could "potentially" alter the events of TNG, DS9 and VOY?

I think Kurtzman is saying PIC is taking place after Romulus was destroyed and Prime Spock and Nero created alternative timeline. While ST09 takes place in alternative timeline, PIC would be taking place in the original timeline, therefore canonizing Romulus destruction into Prime timeline.... blah... blah.... blah... not a good idea at all. Whatever, Kurtzman is now in charge, let him do whatever the hell he wants, it's not like fans have any say in it.

 

[mdtauk]

The Supernova and Destruction of Romulus happened. But then Prime Spock left our universe, and entered into the past of a parallel universe, where he meets a different version of Kirk, Spock, etc. So like the Mirror Universe is parallel but different, so is the "JJverse"

 

[Captain Moe]

So actually the Kelvin time line is dead and just this one event is being persevered because everything that is Kelvin happens after the destruction of Romulus? if that is the case I think I can live with that.

 

[ITDUDE]

The Supernova and Destruction of Romulus happened. But then Prime Spock left our universe, and entered into the past of a parallel universe, where he meets a different version of Kirk, Spock, etc. So like the Mirror Universe is parallel but different, so is the "JJverse"

Between Nemesis and the Supernova there is about a 12-year gap. Previously there was always a possibility that the Supernova didn't take place in the same universe as TNG/DS9/VOY, etc, even in in the credit it did say "Prime Spock". There was always a possibility the the Supernova Prime universe spun off from TNG Prime universe at some point during the 12-year gap. There was no hard link between the two. Now, Kurtzman is saying Picard (same picard from TNG Prime) and the Supernova ARE in fact the same universe. That makes me very sad...

 

[eschaton]

My understanding from ST09 was that the destruction of Romulus was in the prime timeline. However, Nero traveling into the past and altering things created the Kelvin Timeline. Well, not just that, they also argued that it altered the timeline going backwards as well, to get out of any inconsistencies between the Kelvinverse and the PU which predated Nero's arrival. Regardless, either the PU was completely and totally destroyed in a temporal paradox, or it's still there but with an exploded Romulus. There is no other option.

As I said in the Discovery forum, I think all things considered a fallen Romulan Star Empire makes for good drama. The post DS9 status quo was kinda boring for the Federation. The Dominion had retreated to the Gamma Quadrant. The Cardassians were a smoking wreck - probably a third-rate power for generations to come. The Klingons were closer to the Federation than they had ever been before. The Romulans were heading towards detente, but even if they weren't, the combined might of the Federation and the Klingons would easily hold them in check. This is basically the setup for a Pax Romana type situation. The new show doesn't need a "fall of the Federation" or another Dominion War, but it needs something to destabilize the apple cart. Why not use an existing part of Trek canon rather than inventing something entirely new?

The fall of the Romulan Star Empire offers a lot of possibilities. What happens to Romulan colonists outside of the home system? Is there a refugee crisis? Do the Klingons annex former Romulan territory? If so, does this cause a rift in relations with the Federation? Are there Romulan successor states? What's on the far side of Romulan space - The Hirogen? There's lots of potential destabilization here, even if not anything which adds up to an existential crisis.

 

[BurnhamAll]

It has made disappointing amounts of money and poor ROI, given the budgets of those films and the profit margins. Beyond actually lost the studio money, it was a flop.

Beyond and the diminishing returns of that film proved there was a lack of interest in the Kelvin material. Started strong in 2009, and died out. Not just poorly handled by Paramount, but also by the creatives behind the films.

STID is the highest grossing Trek film, even adjusted for inflation. ROI may not have been great because of the budget, and STB was worse, but most of the earlier 10 Trek films were FAR LESS successful, just profitable because of very low budgets. But if we look at Nemeis? A financial disaster.

So should we pretend that never happened, that Data is alive, and the Romulans are still bad guys?

 

[mdtauk]

Picard did have a close relationship with the Romulans compared to other captains. Also the various alternative futures all involved Romulans in one way or another.

And just throwing this out there - Picard could have an archaeological interest in preserving the art and culture of Romulus following the incident.

 

[fireproof78]

It has made disappointing amounts of money and poor ROI, given the budgets of those films and the profit margins. Beyond actually lost the studio money, it was a flop.

Beyond and the diminishing returns of that film proved there was a lack of interest in the Kelvin material. Started strong in 2009, and died out. Not just poorly handled by Paramount, but also by the creatives behind the films.

Again, that doesn't mean that part isn't worth revisiting if the problem with it was mishandling in BTS matters, as you state.

Again, same thing with a Picard show. The TNG movies demonstrated diminishing returns. So, why revisit an era with diminishing financial returns, by this logic?

I think you hit the nail on the head here: This event (destruction of Romulus) was a miniscule detail in the Kelvin-series - to give Nero a "revenge"-story, without actually happening something in the present of the movie that would actually justify revenge.

And yea, the "Countdown"-comic really was NOT good. If that's what this new series is going to build upon - we're in a bad place. Essentially a revival of Kelvin-Trek, without all the things that made Kelvin-Trek actually good - without the scale, the characters, the pace of Kelvin Trek, but with the same problems that killed Kelvin Trek - the same logic- and plotholes and disregard for basic science, characters & backstory...

I'll wait for what actually will happen - Michael Chabon proved himself with "Calypso" greatly - but too much of Kurtzman's ego will kill this show. At least quality-wise.

They are not "building up to" anything. The collapse of Romulus is good drama material. Why ignore it?

There is a lot of assumption in here that I don't think will play out.

 

[Gonzo]

Must admit I am surprised they have doubled down on the destruction of Romulus as they didn't have to do it.

It would provide a cataclysmic shift in the Alpha quadrant providing a starting point for Picard's decisions and potential change of career.

 

[fireproof78]

Must admit I am surprised they have doubled down on the destruction of Romulus as they didn't have to do it.

It would provide a cataclysmic shift in the Alpha quadrant providing a starting point for Picard's decisions and potential change of career.

And it's a great starting point for a story.

 

[eschaton]

Seriously, I don't understand why people are so upset. Don't Trek fans want the writers to use established canon, rather than invent entirely new plot devices?

 

[NeoStar9]

Honestly it is wild that some people have a hard time understanding what was said in ST2009. Spock spoke is very simple terms. I always took that as them wanting to make sure people watching understood where Spock Prime came from and they decided to be as simple and straight forward as possible.

Parallel universes aren't even a new thing to Star Trek and they don't even have to be drastically different. We've gotten those and and had the prime universe altered and then restored. What's clear at this point to keep things simple is the Kelvin Timeline was almost exactly if not exactly like the Prime Timeline up until Nero arrived and sent it off in another direction.

I've always wanted them to keep the events because it does alter the power structure of the galaxy for a new era. Especially if you don't want to do the Fall of the Federation angle. Everything can not and could not be perfect. Or why bother doing a show?

 

[Damian]

I really don't understand all the angst about the destruction of Romulus being a starting point for the nu-TNG show. They already said the show would be 20 years post Nemesis, that's about 12 years most supernova. The show is NOT going to be about the supernova. It may be depicted as a flashback, and it sounds like it's the event that starts the path that we see Picard in at the time of the show. But the show takes place 12 years after.

And they can't ignore it. They can ignore all the books, comics, games they want. But Star Trek does not ignore on screen canon, esp. such a huge event. Spock came from the prime universe where Romulus was destroyed. That's the starting point of Star Trek (2009). Despite what some will say, if they were to pretend that never happened you could bet there would be an outcry from numerous Trekkies. "What, don't they know Romulus was destroyed, what idiot is writing this series?". And honestly I don't know why you'd want to. The consequences of something like that 12 years later is ripe for stories. Imagine if China were to suddenly disappear. And one thing is clear, this series is going to be Picard centered. No matter what happens elsewhere, it's going to be about Captain Picard.

Patrick Stewart is a superb actor. You can rest assured, he's not going to take part in something he feels is a piece of crap. He doesn't need the role anymore. The only thing that got him to agree to do the show was he thought they had a great outline. If Stewart thinks it's going to be a great show, I think you can bet it's going to be a great show.

 

[Damian]

Honestly it is wild that some people have a hard time understanding what was said in ST2009. Spock spoke is very simple terms. I always took that as them wanting to make sure people watching understood where Spock Prime came from and they decided to be as simple and straight forward as possible.

Parallel universes aren't even a new thing to Star Trek and they don't even have to be drastically different. We've gotten those and and had the prime universe altered and then restored. What's clear at this point to keep things simple is the Kelvin Timeline was almost exactly if not exactly like the Prime Timeline up until Nero arrived and sent it off in another direction.

I've always wanted them to keep the events because it does alter the power structure of the galaxy for a new era. Especially if you don't want to do the Fall of the Federation angle. Everything can not and could not be perfect. Or why bother doing a show?

Yeah, I mean we have the mirror universe just for one. And Bob Orci has stated 2 episodes of TNG in particular helped inspire them to write the alternate universe, "Yesterday's Enterprise" and esp. "Parallels". I remember them having a discussion about Parallels and all the various universes depicted in that episode alone. So it's hardly unprecedented in Star Trek. Perhaps the only thing unusual was that a trilogy of movies took place in that alternate universe. But that was all.