I think this is fine...I enjoyed the Kelvin movies (some more than others) but I'm not too captivated by the Romulus story because it didn't feel that fleshed out. Hopefully, this series will fill it out so that it feels more compelling. For me, the big thing that will make a difference is the tone of the show. I'm not that interested in dark/gritty Picard nor do I really need something cynical. Of course, this doesn't mean that it needs to be a replication of TNG! The Orville really scratches that itch for me. It's a tough needle to thread, but I think we can see an older, world weary Picard dealing with the loss of Spock and a turbulent galactic political scene but deep down is still Jean-Luc Picard, you know?
Picard series confirmed post-Romulus
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
I also think it's a bit humorous that fans would complain about using the Hobus Event when it's impact on the post-Nemesis future is enormous, and exploring it is a perfect way to continue the franchise into the future.
Fans critical of the prequel nature of DSC keep saying they want the story of Star Trek to move forward in time, and explore the post-NEM timeline. Well, the fallout from the destruction of Romulus is the most logical place to start for a variety of reasons:
1) it's the last chronological even in the prime timeline "present" (ie: not an alternate future)
2) the annihilation of one of Trek's 3 most major powers would surely alter the political landscape of the 24th century, to an incalulable degree
3) it provides a perfect opportunity to explore something "new" where the status quo of the quadrant is altered, and serves as a good catalyst for a new story involving the remaining major powers we know (Federation, Vulcans, Klingons, Cardassians, etc).
4) it saves them from having to contrive a new reason to shake up the status quo
5) the "end of an era" nature of the status quo shakeup provides a good metaphor for an aging Picard.
Fans critical of the prequel nature of DSC keep saying they want the story of Star Trek to move forward in time, and explore the post-NEM timeline. Well, the fallout from the destruction of Romulus is the most logical place to start for a variety of reasons:
1) it's the last chronological even in the prime timeline "present" (ie: not an alternate future)
2) the annihilation of one of Trek's 3 most major powers would surely alter the political landscape of the 24th century, to an incalulable degree
3) it provides a perfect opportunity to explore something "new" where the status quo of the quadrant is altered, and serves as a good catalyst for a new story involving the remaining major powers we know (Federation, Vulcans, Klingons, Cardassians, etc).
4) it saves them from having to contrive a new reason to shake up the status quo
5) the "end of an era" nature of the status quo shakeup provides a good metaphor for an aging Picard.
The same way they explained the magic properties of the FTL shockwave from Kronos' moon in STVI (hint: they didn't).
None of the flaky science in ST'09 will have any impact on or mention in the series. It's silly to hate on the show because of that. We will hear about Romulus' destruction, possibly due to the supernova, and possibly we will hear that Ambassador Spock gave his life to save everyone. But that's it.
And lastly: why dwell on the implausible "science" of ST'09? Might as well start with crystals that allow ships to travel faster than light, or a magic device that can dematerialize something and send it thousands of km to be rematerialized without a receiver, etc....
I'm in the camp of "who cares" when it comes to explaining the 'magical properties' of a supernova. TOS had more than its fair share of made-up science or things that were obsolete after a few decades (didn't they refer to a black hole as something antiquated?).
For me this is great news that somewhat makes up for the fact that a fourth Kelvin movie is now in the can. Gone but not forgotten it would seem.
For me this is great news that somewhat makes up for the fact that a fourth Kelvin movie is now in the can. Gone but not forgotten it would seem.
Yeah, my feeling as well. Star Trek is full of the inexplainable. And then when they did actually try to explain something they get accused of too much technobabble. Many fans said they didn't want technobabble anymore.
I really think people are getting overly focused on the whole supernova thing. I honestly don't think they're going to try to explain it. It will be an event that changes the landscape of our section of the galaxy and Picard's life, I think. I very much doubt they are going to get into the details of the supernova, red matter, or even Spock all that much except to maybe say he gave his life (at least as far as they know) to stop it. I actually don't think that Spock's death will be the event that causes Picard's life to change. They weren't close friends or anything. He was actually closer to Sarek in many ways and he didn't suffer any long term problems from his death. And in Spock's case, as far as he knows, Spock gave his life to stop the supernova from spreading, a worthy sacrifice.
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Simple. It's another Q civil war.
And what would be more ''cerebral''? The difference between constructive criticism and just complaining is offer alternatives and explain what you would want, rather than just criticizing something. This could be more cerebral because it is not a war per say, it would be a giant refugee crisis, millions or maybe billions of Romulans would be displaced and looking for a new home, maybe that would rekindle the Romulan/Vulcan reunification movement, maybe some Vulcans would welcome these refugees and some wouldn't and yes there would likely be hardline Romulans who would want rebuild the Empire, but this would not be a straight war and all of this stuff is very relevant to today's world. What do you want instead? It would be silly for Picard to still just be captain of the Enterprise and get into the planet/anomaly of the week style stories, given he would be far older and the universe would have changed since the TNG era. Let's face it, there were a million threads from the Federation/Romulan conflict that went nowhere in TNG era, paying them off and making a great story in the process would be amazing, IMO and I think it would be easy to get a new audience up to speed.
Did the anomaly that was going to destroy the universe in ''All Good Things'' make any sense? Not really. Heck, how many how those anomalies in Star Trek made sense? These are plot devices to get the story going, they are not lectures from Neil Degrass Tyson.
This is the point where I vehemently have to disagree though:
Fans DON'T remember Romulus blowing up - because it never actually happened in the movie!
Seriously, ask anyone who is not deep into Trek literature or online games - they ALL have already forgotten that event! And there is a very simple reason for it: It happened in an alternate timeline of the movie. A future that never happened.
Nero's entire motivation in ST09 is as much based in reality as that of VOY's future Captain Braxton in "Time's End".
Sure, this events happened in his timeline - he has a personal reason to want revenge. But it never happened in the main timeline - the actual timeline of the movie. And especially Neros backstory is waaaay less thouhgt out than that of Cpt. Braxton was on a purely technical or logical level.
Seriously, most people that watch ST09 think it's a straight up prequel to TOS. Only few peple actually realize that it's an alternate timeline - only for a few thing standing out, like Vulcan blowing up or Khan showing up. But the general concensus in this regard is more "reboot" than actually events happening parallel to each other. And really, NO ONE outside the absolute hardest hardcore fanbase hanging out on Internet forums does actually remember the destruction of Romulus even happening!
It did happen! We saw it happen! Don't tell us it didn't happen!
I don't understand your post. Romulus absolutely exploded in the Prime timeline. That's confirmed by Prime Spock, and also by Star Trek Beyond's scene with NuSpock seeing the picture from STV (which ... ugh... canonizes that too).
Now, we have further confirmation that this occurred in the Prime timeline with the Picard series.
I guess I see it differently. I saw Romulus destroyed in the movie and I thought it was pretty clear it was Romulus. I didn't seen any ambiguity there. His world was destroyed, he was Romulan, and he was taking revenge for the loss of his home world and his family that lived there. It's all in the mind meld sequence.
And Star Trek just doesn't ignore an event like that. If Picard visited Romulus in the new show, 12 years after it was supposedly destroyed, I think fans would be WTF, Romulus was destroyed. Star Trek will freely contradict tie-ins, like books, comics, games. But they are not going to contradict something that was seen on screen, not something earth shattering like that (pardon the pun).
And I'm not sure why the objection to using that anyway. It would have huge implications for the quadrant, and it's reasonable to assume it impacted Picard in some way. It'd be a way to examine the consequences of Star Trek (2009) from the other side, the side left behind when the Narada went back in time. And at the same time, I don't think they are going to dwell on it. I think it will be a set up to establish the show then they will go from there. I'm pretty confident they'll still have plenty of original stories.
That does not mean it can't be an interesting turn of events. I bet hardly anyone remembered Khan or Space Seed in 1982, but that became the basis for the best Star Trek movie.
Who cares if anyone remembers it or not, its a potentially interesting event that can move things forward, the Romulans became a stale and stagnant civilization over time, in the TNG era they would do something sneaky, usually get foiled and sulk away and we hardly learned anything about them and there are a ton of plot threads that went nowhere with them from the TNG era. Was Romulus this super important aspect of Star Trek? Not really, we only saw it a couple of times. But the Federation's oldest foes going from proud conquerors to poor refugees, that is interesting and could give the Romulans a shot in the arm they have needed for decades. Picard dealing with a refugee crisis made up foes he fought for decades, that is interesting.
Heck do what DS9 did for the Cardassians and Ferengi by giving us compelling reoccurring Romulan character, ones that want to rebuild Empire and ones that want to embrace peace and resettle on Vulcan.
The destruction of Romulus was the spark that ignited the story of ST09. Similarly I expect it to be the spark that sets off the Picard Show (god I wish they'd title this thing already).
I fully expect the series to be about how the change in the political status quo affects Picard, and makes him take stock of his life and his legacy. The Hobus Event, I suspect, will get little more than a passing mention, and will be referred to mostly as the "decimation of the Romulan Empire."
I fully expect the series to be about how the change in the political status quo affects Picard, and makes him take stock of his life and his legacy. The Hobus Event, I suspect, will get little more than a passing mention, and will be referred to mostly as the "decimation of the Romulan Empire."
In a way, it's apropos: The Romulan Empire was long said to have been a Trek equivalent to the Roman Empire, and the supernova acts as the equivalent of the Great Fire of Rome, even down to the involvement of a figure named Nero.
I would hope the event is just should just be the kick off to the main event, the fallout from it, I do not care why that star went supernova, what comes afterward is what matters.
I still think the fallout should be the story, the Romulan Empire was supposed to be huge, where would be several conquered worlds and Romulan colonies outside of Romulus, the Romulans would be down, but not out and they would have to decide what they want, make peace finally or try to rebuild the Empire.
I can imagine a story where the Klingons, Cardassians, and [insert third adversary] fight over the annexation of remaining Romulan worlds. The Federation calls Picard out of retirement to mediate and prevent a new Alpha Quadrant War, particularly given his history and respect with and among the Klingons, who have the clear upper hand. Would also help fit the likes of Worf into the story.
There could still be a refugee crisis, with several Romulans wanting to resettle on Vulcan.
I also think the Romulan hardliners would be trickier to deal with you think, desperation has made them give up all subtlety, they no longer wish to trick the Federation into a conflict, they will now fight for what they can and try to win any way they can. They have no honor, no plans for long term manipulations, just a will to survive and thrive and while losing Romulus would be a blow against them, a lot of the Romulan fleet would have survived, powerful warships and hardened veteran troops who now have nothing to lose is a dangerous combo.
I cared. Please stop generalizing as, even among Trek fans I know, Hobus is known. It is shown in the film, and is part of Nero's reason to be.
Unfortunately, the success of films and different fan stories have indicated that many in fandom enjoy this type of story.
Why do you think they can't do that? There is so much assumption that somehow referencing another Star Trek property is putting too much of a burden on the audience. This is baffling to me. It's so much extremism, where studios either don't trust audiences enough and have to spoon feed exposition, or are expecting too much of audiences to understand all of the lore.
I don't understand this conclusion at all, nor do I feel like because they are referencing an event in another Trek property that it means they are doing an action/adventure style of 09. Again, all of these conclusions make zero sense to me.
They already went this route with TUC, it would be nice to see the Romulans go the other direction: realizing openly that the only way to survive is to make peace. The problem is, the Klingons and Cardassians and (insert third adversary) won't let them.
I like the refugee crisis angle though. Ripe for social commentary. Maybe the Vulcans refuse to take them, to the point of building a "wall".
They won't. They'll just ignore it.
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