Picard Season one.... I miss Star Trek

[fireproof78]

We never went to Earth in TOS, we don't know how "happy" it was. Seems there was a fair amount of "corruption" in the Federation. Captains going mad with power. People enslaved on Ardana. Self serving bureaucrats at every turn. Trigger happy miners.

Even Spock has the most interesting opinion regarding modern technology in "Way to Eden" (not a popular episode but I always found this quote quite informative):
KIRK: Well. But they've rejected all that and all that this technology provides. And they seek the primitive.
SPOCK: There are many who are uncomfortable with what we have created. It is almost a biological rebellion. A profound revulsion against the planned communities, the programming, the sterilised, artfully balanced atmospheres. They hunger for an Eden where spring comes.
KIRK: All do. The cave is deep in our memory.
SPOCK: Yes, that is true, Captain.

 

[johnnybear]

The only times we see earth in the original series were the time travel episodes plus Starfleet Headquarters in the films! But even in TOS we see a Starfleet willing to risk it's flagship just to get cloaking technology and many other harebrained schemes to foil the Klingons in claiming mining and agricultural rights to distant planets! The Starship Captains who went insane while out in space can hardly be regarded as power tripping! More as mentally damaged from the confrontations with gigantic planet destroyers and losing all your crew to an unseen virus!!! But in the later series we learn of secret departments and corrupt officials that goes against the grain of what Gene Roddenberry hoped for his vision!
JB

 

[fireproof78]

But even in TOS we see a Starfleet willing to risk it's flagship just to get cloaking technology

The TOS Enterprise is not the flag ship.

But in the later series we learn of secret departments and corrupt officials that goes against the grain of what Gene Roddenberry hoped for his vision!

We've had corrupt officials since TUC, plus all the admirals who Kirk locked horns with in TOS. No matter what there was always some sort of corruption, or barrier that our crew fought against. Gene's TOS vision was that humanity survived and got along together well enough to expand out in to space, not that people lived in utopia.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The only times we see earth in the original series were the time travel episodes plus Starfleet Headquarters in the films!

Yes, we know. That was the point. As as @fireproof78 pointed out. Not everyone was "happy'.

But even in TOS we see a Starfleet willing to risk it's flagship just to get cloaking technology and many other harebrained schemes to foil the Klingons in claiming mining and agricultural rights to distant planets!

I believe that's called espionage. Spying. Sneaky. Underhanded. Deceit.

The Starship Captains who went insane while out in space can hardly be regarded as power tripping! More as mentally damaged from the confrontations with gigantic planet destroyers and losing all your crew to an unseen virus!!!

Captain Tracy. Captain Garth. Being "in space" is no defense.

But in the later series we learn of secret departments and corrupt officials that goes against the grain of what Gene Roddenberry hoped for his vision!

Once again. Spying. Sneaky. Underhandedness. Deceit. Is that "Gene's Vision"?*

*What ever that was the week an episode was written.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Without getting into the specifics of Gene's vision, whatever that has come to mean this day of the week, in the Federation as actually depicted on screen, the whole "Federation is a Utopia" thing is more of the Federation's sales pitch than it's active reality. Don't get me wrong, the Federation is depicted as a great place to live, but I think they always tend to overstate inherit nobility of humanity.

 

[Lord Garth]

Without getting into the specifics of Gene's vision, whatever that has come to mean this day of the week

Gene's Vision is that everyone have Greek Salad in pita pockets.

 

[TRON JA307020]

TOS through Enterprise was forged by the restrictions of network television (Have to appeal to a mass audience. Have to be family-friendly. Live and die by the Nielsen ratings.)

Streaming did not exist when Enterprise began in 2001. The technology for delivering content has changed. It's a different media environment today.

Enterprise played by the rules that you're infatuated with. It bombed. It only lasted four seasons (as opposed to Trek's Golden Seven Year standard).

Why must Trek live by the strictures imposed by outdated rules?

But with all the restrictions and censors the original Star Trek managed to be quite entertaining, adventurous, inspiring and yes even violent but the characters had hope. TNG managed to continue that tradition and still still give us entertaining and fun stories. It was about mankind getting better and improving. With Picard I feel like I’m watching 20 and 21st century humans living in the late 24th century world that tng built. They even have paper pictures something even we aren’t doing much if in 21st century earth. Everything that Roddenberry built in that world is gone. The people of the late 24th century even wear 21st century clothing now complete with old fashioned zippers, buttons and collared button shirts you can buy in any JC penny. Nope I think they dropped the ball on this show.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Probably TOS, since Paramount/CBS didn't pay anything to produce it.

On a more serious note, I just haven't been feeling what has been produced by All-Access to this point. Not "awful", but it has done little to capture my imagination. I still haven't gotten around to finishing Picard, and based on what I've heard, I'm not sure I want to.

It all just has a very generic sci-fi feel to it. Though to quote sports fans, there's always next year.

yeah it is pretty generic sci fi now. Star Trek has been stripped of what made it special. I wasn’t impressed at all.

 

[Dar70]

It wasn't a copy, it was a transference. It is his mind, just digitized I assume, but it is HIS mind. It is still him in the way it matters.

And how is this any different than the transporter? That destroys you and rebuilds you.

This also isn't exactly a concept for the franchise, Ira Graves did it in TNG, literally transferred himself into Data's body (while Data was put into his). It was also done even earlier in TOS, though not as well.

In not sure I'm buying that. The way data explained it, it sounded like they copied is memories into the android. Until the producers explain it better in think the interpretation of what happened to picard will be debatable for years to come. I was really disappointed they did that to Picard. I really enjoyed the show up until that last episode. It was just awful.

 

[Tuskin38]

In not sure I'm buying that. The way data explained it, it sounded like they copied is memories into the android. Until the producers explain it better in think the interpretation of what happened to picard will be debatable for years to come. I was really disappointed they did that to Picard. I really enjoyed the show up until that last episode. It was just awful.

They called it a transfer in the episode, not a copy.

 

[TRON JA307020]

They called it a transfer in the episode, not a copy.

It doesn't matter. It's still not Picard. I agree with Dar70. Also the Starfleet ships looked terrible and all the same. Its like they had one style and just copied it a couple hundred times. Also they killed data a second time and a lame way to boot. I wish they just would have left the TNG era alone. These jerks have the run of the store and to think they might get to make more. Everything looked rushed from the ships to the sets and to the clothes. The writing was slow and boring. So bad.

 

[Lord Garth]

It doesn't matter. It's still not Picard.

Do you think Spock in TSFS-TUC isn't Spock? If Sargon were successfully trasferred into one of those android bodies in "Return to Tomorrow" would he still be Sargon? If Picard's consciousness was transferred, it's Picard. If it wasn't, it's not. That's my standard. They're leading us to believe his conciousness was transferred. Unless the second season says or suggests otherwise, that's what I'm going with.

I agree with Dar70. Also the Starfleet ships looked terrible and all the same. Its like they had one style and just copied it a couple hundred times.

They did. I'm not going to argue with you there.

Also they killed data a second time and a lame way to boot.

Data was already dead. Was his mind in an android body? No, it wasn't. He was a disembodied spirit who was tired of spending 20 years in limbo.

I wish they just would have left the TNG era alone.

Well, for 20 years they did. And what did we get? A ton of people whining and screaming, "We want the 24th Century back!" All through ENT, the Kelvin Movies, and the first two seasons of DSC, we saw people jumping up-and-down, ridiculously stomping, "We want the 24th Century back!" Well, now they have it. And now we've found out what a lot of them really meant all this time was, "We want '90s Trek back!" Well, go the TOS Forum and ask some of the people there how "We want '60s Trek back!" went. You're not going to like the ending to that story...

 

[Lord Garth]

In not sure I'm buying that. The way data explained it, it sounded like they copied is memories into the android. Until the producers explain it better in think the interpretation of what happened to picard will be debatable for years to come. I was really disappointed they did that to Picard. I really enjoyed the show up until that last episode. It was just awful.

It's probably going to be one of the series' long-standing debates. It's not enough to do the series in for me. It call comes down to what they do with it afterwards, at least for me. There may be characters within the show who'll feel the same way about it as you do right now. That seems like a natural source of conflict.

On the flip side, at least the #NotMyPicard crowd will have something to argue their case with.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, for 20 years they did. And what did we get? A ton of people whining and screaming, "We want the 24th Century back!" All through ENT, the Kelvin Movies, and the first two seasons of DSC, we saw people jumping up-and-down, ridiculously stomping, "We want the 24th Century back!" Well, now they have it. And now we've found out what a lot of them really meant all this time was, "We want '90s Trek back!" Well, go the TOS Forum and ask some of the people there how "We want '60s Trek back!" went. You're not going to like the ending to that story...

Exactly. Declaring "I miss Star Trek" pretty much means "Star Trek needs to remain the same and never change." Which, from a psychological perspective I get. But, it is completely unreasonable.

 

[Lord Garth]

There's a counter-argument you can use that Picard isn't really Picard that no one who claims to be an "old-schooler" has used yet. But it's from TOS. Not TNG. So they're not as "old school" as they like to think. I'll point it out for them because they should know this.

"What Are Little Girls Made Of?" Dr. Korby continues on as an Android. But Kirk and Chapel don't consider it to really be Korby and Kirk ends the episode by telling Spock, "Dr. Korby was never here." No one's brought that up. So I'm giving it to them as a gift. I'll do their job for them.

"Why the Hell would you do that? You're shooting your own argument in the foot!" No I'm not. I thought of that.

I'm still going with the idea that Picard is like Sargon from "Return to Tomorrow" (TOS). His mind was transferred into an artificial body.

"But it's not really Picard!" No? Well why then do some of you out there claim Data died twice? If you can accept that a stream of information is Data who can be killed again, then you can accept Picard is a stream of information who can be killed again. You either accept that the Data that Picard met is Data or you can say it's not Data. But if you accept him as Data, then you have to accept Picard as Picard. And this Picard has been put into a new body.

This Data and this Picard have remnants of the original sparks from the Data and Picard who died. If any of that spark is intact, they're the same people.

Dr. Korby doesn't have any of that spark or essence. From what we understand. Or he does and Kirk and Chapel didn't accept him as such at the end of the episode. Like I said, it's going to be one of Picard's long-standing debates.

We're moving into religion and philosophy and what you believe happens to someone after death and whether or not someone can exist after death and how. And that's a debate that's not going to be resolved by a TrekBBS thread because people have been arguing it for thousands of years.

 

[The Old Mixer]

You either accept that the Picard that Data met is Data

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[Lord Garth]

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Holy fuck. That's a blooper right there!

EDIT: Fixed!

 

[Therin of Andor]

I saw plenty of "Star Trek" hope and IDIC in "Picard". And "Discovery". And the Kelvinverse.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Here's a nice article that kind of puts the debate on previous trek to today. Very good article on how kurtzman and chabon really don't get trek and why the Orville is doing so well and has actually gotten trek right.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture...ot-that-boldly-goes-where-nobody-wanted-it-to

 

[Lord Garth]

Here's a nice article that kind of puts the debate on previous trek to today. Very good article on how kurtzman and chabon really don't get trek and why the Orville is doing so well and has actually gotten trek right.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture...ot-that-boldly-goes-where-nobody-wanted-it-to

[ x ] "STD sucks!"
[ x ] "SJWs!"
[ x ] "What have they done to Picard?!"
[ x ] "TOS and TNG are the best!"
[ x ] "Orville is Star Trek now!"
[ _ ] "I'm not paying for CBS All Access!"

Come on, let's finish off the checklist. You almost have it all.