Picard question

[WarpFactorZ]

But it should at least come with some inherent curiosity.
I'm not crazy about many of the episodes and a couple of the movies, but as a Star Trek FAN I have at least taken the time to see each of them at least once.
Isn't that what being a FAN is all about?

Exactly. And with ST'09 in particular, I don't understand what Trek fan would actively refuse to see it. It revived the dying franchise, marked the first time Trek had been on the big screen since the flop that was Nemesis, gave us back the TOS era, and even brought in Nimoy! What about any of that would make a fan say "No thanks." I know I was absolutely stoked to see it.

 

[ITDUDE]

There are long term fans who STILL don’t get this!?

Back in 2009, 2387 was "future" of Trek, in same vein as All Good Things.. and bunch of other "future" episodes, which all ended up being not Prime. ST09 didn't have anything that was unquestionably "Prime" in it except for the "Prime Spock" bit in the credits. It could have easily been alternative future. If Picard is a sequel to ST09 timeline, then it will in-fact make ST09 Prime. But it wasn't a given until just now, with Star Trek: Picard

 

[Dukhat]

Back in 2009, 2387 was "future" of Trek, in same vein as All Good Things.. and bunch of other "future" episodes, which all ended up being not Prime. ST09 didn't have anything "prime" in it except "Prime Spock" in the credit. It could have easily been alternative future. If Picard is sequel to ST09 prime events, then it will in-fact make ST09 Prime. But it wasn't a given until just now with Star Trek: Picard

There were scenes in the film from the prime timeline in 2387 during the construction of the Jellyfish. Granted they were from Prime Spock’s mind meld with nuKirk, but I assumed we were supposed to take the scenes literally.

 

[fireproof78]

Exactly. And with ST'09 in particular, I don't understand what Trek fan would actively refuse to see it. It revived the dying franchise, marked the first time Trek had been on the big screen since the flop that was Nemesis, gave us back the TOS era, and even brought in Nimoy! What about any of that would make a fan say "No thanks." I know I was absolutely stoked to see it.

I was stoked too. That doesn't mean all fans would be. We live in a day and age where people are highly selective of their media consumption. So, maybe a fan saw the trailer and decided not it's not for them. My dad did with Generations despite loving TOS.

Fans are not a monolith.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Back in 2009, 2387 was "future" of Trek, in same vein as All Good Things.. and bunch of other "future" episodes, which all ended up being not Prime. ST09 didn't have anything that was unquestionably "Prime" in it except for the "Prime Spock" bit in the credits. It could have easily been alternative future. If Picard is a sequel to ST09 timeline, then it will in-fact make ST09 Prime. But it wasn't a given until just now, with Star Trek: Picard

It was a "given" because the people who made it and the ones who hired them (and own Star Trek) said so. Prime isn't up for a vote or a an opinion. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[ITDUDE]

It was a "given" because the people who made it and the ones who hired them (and own Star Trek) said so. Prime isn't up for a vote or a an opinion. It just doesn't work that way.

You mean “canon”. “Prime” is whatever the primary universe is where most of the stories take place. It wasn’t even called that before ST09. Didn’t I read somewhere that ST09 was supposed to destroy old primary universe completely and it was to become new primary universe. It’s only the fandom that named it Kelvin universe and decided to keep the universes apart. If “the owners” had their way, all new Trek would branch from the new timeline with old one dead and buried.

 

[fireproof78]

You mean “canon”. “Prime” is whatever the primary universe is. Didn’t I read somewhere that ST09 was supposed to destroy old prime completely and it was to become new prime. It’s only the fandom that named it Kelvin universe and decided to keep the universes apart. If “the owners” had their way, all new Trek would branch from the new timeline with old one dead and buried.

Never read the owners stating that. Rather odd.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm pretty sure the distinction has always been: Bad Robot wanted the Kelvin Timeline and CBS wants the Prime Timeline. CBS will never give up the backlog of episodes from Canon or want to lose out from the merchandising it brings. And with the JJ Abrams films finished, CBS's Star Trek is alone in still standing. So it will stay "Prime" for the foreseeable future. The Owners live and die by the sword of Prime. Just not for the same reasons a fan would.

 

[Dukhat]

Didn’t I read somewhere that ST09 was supposed to destroy old primary universe completely and it was to become new primary universe.

Where did you read that?

It’s only the fandom that named it Kelvin universe and decided to keep the universes apart.

No, “Kelvin Timeline” is the official term for this universe. It wasn’t made by fandom. If anything, the fandom (at least the fandom here) was calling it the Abramsverse.

If “the owners” had their way, all new Trek would branch from the new timeline with old one dead and buried.

That’s not remotely true. The owner of Star Trek is CBS, and their new Trek shows take place in the prime timeline.

 

[ITDUDE]

That’s not remotely true. The owner of Star Trek is CBS, and their new Trek shows take place in the prime timeline.

I mean the owners of the movies, Paramount, from their 2009 point of view.

 

[Nerys Myk]

You mean “canon”. “Prime” is whatever the primary universe is where most of the stories take place. It wasn’t even called that before ST09. Didn’t I read somewhere that ST09 was supposed to destroy old primary universe completely and it was to become new primary universe. It’s only the fandom that named it Kelvin universe and decided to keep the universes apart. If “the owners” had their way, all new Trek would branch from the new timeline with old one dead and buried.

Nope. Prime is the official designation for the universe/timeline established in TOS.
Never heard that one. The writers of ST09 went out of their way to say it was a branching timeline and no where was it said the Prime/TOS+ universe was destroyed.
I don't think "Kelvin" was a fan thing. Didn't CBS christened it that? Fans probably came up with a lot of names for ST09 universe, Some not repeatable in polite company.
The owner (no real need for quotes it's not a euphemism ) did want Kelvin to be the setting for all future Treks, but things change. The old timeline is a cash cow, they would never bury it. They just wouldn't make movies or TV shows in it.

 

[fireproof78]

I mean the owners of the movies, Paramount, from their 2009 point of view.

But CBS owns Trek. They made zero effort to get rid of Prime Trek. In fact, the opposite.

 

[JD]

Back in 2009, 2387 was "future" of Trek, in same vein as All Good Things.. and bunch of other "future" episodes, which all ended up being not Prime. ST09 didn't have anything that was unquestionably "Prime" in it except for the "Prime Spock" bit in the credits. It could have easily been alternative future. If Picard is a sequel to ST09 timeline, then it will in-fact make ST09 Prime. But it wasn't a given until just now, with Star Trek: Picard

It has always been the Prime timeline, the tie ins all had to include it as part of their versions of the Prime timeline. I find that what the tie-ins do or do not follow or use tends to be one of the best ways to tell what is and isn't canon since they are required to follow the canon at all times.

Nope. Prime is the official designation for the universe/timeline established in TOS.
Never heard that one. The writers of ST09 went out of their way to say it was a branching timeline and no where was it said the Prime/TOS+ universe was destroyed.
I don't think "Kelvin" was a fan thing. Didn't CBS christened it that? Fans probably came up with a lot of names for ST09 universe, Some not repeatable in polite company.

I believe we first heard the time Kelvin Universe used in stuff related to Star Trek Online, but Mike Okuda came up with the name when he was writing the most recent version of the Star Trek Encyclopedia. We just saw it in STO first because their Kelvin Universe stuff came out before the Encyclopedia was published.

 

[F. King Daniel]

You mean “canon”. “Prime” is whatever the primary universe is where most of the stories take place. It wasn’t even called that before ST09. Didn’t I read somewhere that ST09 was supposed to destroy old primary universe completely and it was to become new primary universe. It’s only the fandom that named it Kelvin universe and decided to keep the universes apart. If “the owners” had their way, all new Trek would branch from the new timeline with old one dead and buried.

Originally, the supernova was to raze most of the galaxy, and Spock and Nero's reset was to become something of a chance to save the galaxy down the line. The Star Trek Online game was in development, set in the early 25th century and they supposedly appealed to CBS and had the destruction scaled back to just Romulus since the original plan would have rendered their game moot. And obviously it would have had the same effect on Star Trek: Picard.

 

[StewMc]

Back in 2009, 2387 was "future" of Trek, in same vein as All Good Things.. and bunch of other "future" episodes, which all ended up being not Prime. ST09 didn't have anything that was unquestionably "Prime" in it except for the "Prime Spock" bit in the credits. It could have easily been alternative future. If Picard is a sequel to ST09 timeline, then it will in-fact make ST09 Prime. But it wasn't a given until just now, with Star Trek: Picard

With Nemesis set in 2379 in 2002, they actually were pretty close in making 2387 the ‘present’ in ST ‘09. Someone must have made some kind of effort to make the 24th century year line up with previous efforts, even if they ended up being a year out...

 

[Nerys Myk]

Originally, the supernova was to raze most of the galaxy, and Spock and Nero's reset was to become something of a chance to save the galaxy down the line. The Star Trek Online game was in development, set in the early 25th century and they supposedly appealed to CBS and had the destruction scaled back to just Romulus since the original plan would have rendered their game moot. And obviously it would have had the same effect on Star Trek: Picard.

Source?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Source?

Click!
And apologies, the guy is talking about the Countdown prequel comic and not the 2009 movie explicitly, but I imagine the mass destruction would have been reflected in the film's mind meld sequence.

 

[Dukhat]

I mean the owners of the movies, Paramount, from their 2009 point of view.

Paramount was given a license by CBS (or maybe was it Viacom at the time) to produce Star Trek movies. But it was Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman's idea to create an alternate universe while making it clear that the prime universe still exists. So nobody working for Paramount or Big Robot was looking to erase the prime timeline.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

ST09 didn't have anything that was unquestionably "Prime" in it except for the "Prime Spock" bit in the credits. It could have easily been alternative future.

It could have been an alternate timeline, but that wouldn't make any real sense. If Old Spock was NOT the Spock we all knew and loved, coming from the TOS universe we know and love, it wouldn't have had the same impact on the story.

Before we had the amount of information we now have about ST: Picard, some posters were theorizing that it was an alternate universe Picard and would have no connection to TNG. Again, same point: if it isn't THE Picard we grew up with, then the entire impact of the show is nullified.

TLDR: Occam's razor. The Ambassador Spock we see working with Romulans is not from an alternate timeline, but rather is the same Ambassador Spock we last saw working with Romulans in TNG.

 

[skip bittman]

Data died in nemesis which is the standard timeline, and if I am right did not the destruction of Romulus take place in an alternate timeline, so what am I missing ?

Alex Kurtzman needing to mark his territory.