Picard question

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by gazomg, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not every fan expresses their fandom the same way.
     
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  2. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly. And with ST'09 in particular, I don't understand what Trek fan would actively refuse to see it. It revived the dying franchise, marked the first time Trek had been on the big screen since the flop that was Nemesis, gave us back the TOS era, and even brought in Nimoy! What about any of that would make a fan say "No thanks." I know I was absolutely stoked to see it.
     
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  3. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Back in 2009, 2387 was "future" of Trek, in same vein as All Good Things.. and bunch of other "future" episodes, which all ended up being not Prime. ST09 didn't have anything that was unquestionably "Prime" in it except for the "Prime Spock" bit in the credits. It could have easily been alternative future. If Picard is a sequel to ST09 timeline, then it will in-fact make ST09 Prime. But it wasn't a given until just now, with Star Trek: Picard
     
  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There were scenes in the film from the prime timeline in 2387 during the construction of the Jellyfish. Granted they were from Prime Spock’s mind meld with nuKirk, but I assumed we were supposed to take the scenes literally.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was stoked too. That doesn't mean all fans would be. We live in a day and age where people are highly selective of their media consumption. So, maybe a fan saw the trailer and decided not it's not for them. My dad did with Generations despite loving TOS.

    Fans are not a monolith.
     
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  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    It was a "given" because the people who made it and the ones who hired them (and own Star Trek) said so. Prime isn't up for a vote or a an opinion. It just doesn't work that way.
     
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  7. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You mean “canon”. “Prime” is whatever the primary universe is where most of the stories take place. It wasn’t even called that before ST09. Didn’t I read somewhere that ST09 was supposed to destroy old primary universe completely and it was to become new primary universe. It’s only the fandom that named it Kelvin universe and decided to keep the universes apart. If “the owners” had their way, all new Trek would branch from the new timeline with old one dead and buried.
     
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Never read the owners stating that. Rather odd.
     
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  9. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm pretty sure the distinction has always been: Bad Robot wanted the Kelvin Timeline and CBS wants the Prime Timeline. CBS will never give up the backlog of episodes from Canon or want to lose out from the merchandising it brings. And with the JJ Abrams films finished, CBS's Star Trek is alone in still standing. So it will stay "Prime" for the foreseeable future. The Owners live and die by the sword of Prime. Just not for the same reasons a fan would.
     
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  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Where did you read that?

    No, “Kelvin Timeline” is the official term for this universe. It wasn’t made by fandom. If anything, the fandom (at least the fandom here) was calling it the Abramsverse.

    That’s not remotely true. The owner of Star Trek is CBS, and their new Trek shows take place in the prime timeline.
     
  11. ITDUDE

    ITDUDE Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I mean the owners of the movies, Paramount, from their 2009 point of view.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Nope. Prime is the official designation for the universe/timeline established in TOS.
    Never heard that one. The writers of ST09 went out of their way to say it was a branching timeline and no where was it said the Prime/TOS+ universe was destroyed.
    I don't think "Kelvin" was a fan thing. Didn't CBS christened it that? Fans probably came up with a lot of names for ST09 universe, Some not repeatable in polite company. ;)
    The owner (no real need for quotes it's not a euphemism ) did want Kelvin to be the setting for all future Treks, but things change. The old timeline is a cash cow, they would never bury it. They just wouldn't make movies or TV shows in it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But CBS owns Trek. They made zero effort to get rid of Prime Trek. In fact, the opposite.
     
  14. JD

    JD Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It has always been the Prime timeline, the tie ins all had to include it as part of their versions of the Prime timeline. I find that what the tie-ins do or do not follow or use tends to be one of the best ways to tell what is and isn't canon since they are required to follow the canon at all times.


    I believe we first heard the time Kelvin Universe used in stuff related to Star Trek Online, but Mike Okuda came up with the name when he was writing the most recent version of the Star Trek Encyclopedia. We just saw it in STO first because their Kelvin Universe stuff came out before the Encyclopedia was published.
     
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  15. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Originally, the supernova was to raze most of the galaxy, and Spock and Nero's reset was to become something of a chance to save the galaxy down the line. The Star Trek Online game was in development, set in the early 25th century and they supposedly appealed to CBS and had the destruction scaled back to just Romulus since the original plan would have rendered their game moot. And obviously it would have had the same effect on Star Trek: Picard.
     
  16. StewMc

    StewMc Commodore Commodore

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    With Nemesis set in 2379 in 2002, they actually were pretty close in making 2387 the ‘present’ in ST ‘09. Someone must have made some kind of effort to make the 24th century year line up with previous efforts, even if they ended up being a year out...
     
  17. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    Source?
     
  18. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Click!
    And apologies, the guy is talking about the Countdown prequel comic and not the 2009 movie explicitly, but I imagine the mass destruction would have been reflected in the film's mind meld sequence.
     
  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Paramount was given a license by CBS (or maybe was it Viacom at the time) to produce Star Trek movies. But it was Abrams, Orci, and Kurtzman's idea to create an alternate universe while making it clear that the prime universe still exists. So nobody working for Paramount or Big Robot was looking to erase the prime timeline.
     
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  20. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

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    It could have been an alternate timeline, but that wouldn't make any real sense. If Old Spock was NOT the Spock we all knew and loved, coming from the TOS universe we know and love, it wouldn't have had the same impact on the story.

    Before we had the amount of information we now have about ST: Picard, some posters were theorizing that it was an alternate universe Picard and would have no connection to TNG. Again, same point: if it isn't THE Picard we grew up with, then the entire impact of the show is nullified.

    TLDR: Occam's razor. The Ambassador Spock we see working with Romulans is not from an alternate timeline, but rather is the same Ambassador Spock we last saw working with Romulans in TNG.
     
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